• Mitch58
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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

We did have a discussion about the Thunderslots prior to the start of the season and it was decided to allow them. From my point of view at that time I didn't own any and had never driven one. I was positive that I could built something to compete against them and was enjoying the challenge.

After spending enough money to buy a Thunderslot on two Fly cars I ended up with the fastest Fly cars I've ever driven, but that was it, they still fell short of what the Thunderslots were running.

Then I drove one. Before I finished the first lap I knew my efforts were futile. So I bought one. It's the fastest, smoothest most pleasant to drive car I own.

It's clear to everyone whether they've driven one or not they belong to a class of their own. Since they are currently producing more models perhaps eventually that will happen, other clubs have already done so.

That being said I think Mid Season changes should be avoided, but they happen whether to balance the field or to make some other needed correction.  Howie's track is having a power issue mid season They've gone from 13 volts to 9.5 volts. The generally faster guys grumbled for the entire 12 minutes they were racing, But Terry and I being used to 10 volts had a great time with Terry getting a podium finish. Al made a mid season change to the track which is taking a while to get used to but in the end it is a major improvement. We should have built it that way to begin with but both of us being the same height we didn't realize  that little blind spot was so much bigger for some of our club members, so a correction was made.

So as much as I enjoy driving my Thunderslot I'm open to whatever the majority wants to do. I'm very confident that my position in the middle of the pack is quite secure.

  • From: Hillsboro, OR
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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

Here's my take:

Not knowing what was going on with regard to this car's legality for any class I made my objection known as soon as I saw Greg's car set on the track.  There was no time for discussion.  I came expecting that the Slot.its would be the top dog in this fight.  To my thinking when you introduce a car - not a line of cars - and a single model at that - that can EASILY then run at least one second faster per every lap than the comparative competition you have an issue.  Slap on a $90 price tag and it becomes the same issue we fought against with the Racer/NSR situation.  And it's not like any fabulous tuning was involved.  ;-)  You take the car out of the box, place it on the track and beat the bloody hell out of everyone that is running something else.

I did run my car once in the GT class having heard it had already been allowed.  Think I was second to Chris' TS car.  But no more, the car is retired but I may make it available to anyone that wants to run it in whatever class allows it.  Personally I think it's an unfair advantage.  Akin to having a Difalco controller while your opponents are using non-adjusting Parma's.

Since it comes in two versions, coupe and open top. will they both be legal for, well, just how many classes?  That is, will the open top car be legal for GT and will the coupe be legal for Can Am?  And what other freaking classes?

In the future I suggest the solution is the creation of the Thunderslot class.  It can rotate with the 1:24 classes for the limited amount of racers that have them.  It has no place among the other cars at this point in my opinion.

It's like the appearance of the 917/30.  The car that pretty well destroyed the Can Am series in the first place.

"Big Smooth"

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53 Reply by ckouba (edited by ckouba February 3, 2018 7:34 am)

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

Mitch58 wrote:

After spending enough money to buy a Thunderslot on two Fly cars I ended up with the fastest Fly cars I've ever driven, but that was it, they still fell short of what the Thunderslots were running.

Then I drove one. Before I finished the first lap I knew my efforts were futile. So I bought one. It's the fastest, smoothest most pleasant to drive car I own.


To be completely honest, I wasn't planning on buying one and intended to thrash on a Slot.It to get it competitive.  Then I was given a coupe as compensation for someone's portion of the 24h entry cost and I very quickly came to the same conclusion which Mitch references above, only I was spared the expense of trying to set up some other car first.  The Thunderslots are fairly untouchable in the short term and without spending equivalent sums of money on other ones.

After this, I did seek out and purchase the whitest-with-red-stripes-liveried spider I could find and tuned it in the same manner I did the coupe.  It was another step function quicker.  If I spend a bunch of time and money on my current Slot.it, I may get it close, but it's currently "only" running 6.9's at Al's, so it's certainly not near the pointy end.

That said, I do still believe it is possible to tune another car to be competitive with them, but it will take time and persistence.
After the racing on Thurs night, I got out the 962 which I don't run anymore to see where it was.  After a few laps I had it running 6.5's with occasional 6.4's....  So it's possible. But that car is heavily massaged and took quite a bit of time to get there.

I'll actually probably run it for the GT category race nights, just to have something other than a Thunderslot out there, that and my coupe isn't white with red.  We did discuss at the beginning if the Thunderslots were allowed (along with the NSR's), and we did all say yes.  I would be inclined to stick with that decision but understand they will probably need their own class.

Perhaps we allow them through the end of the series this year and then run them as a sub-class of Can Am on non-points nights.  We can decide if they remain championship legal at the start of next season again.  I don't particularly care one way or another, but also as Mitch says above, they really are spectacular cars to run and it'd be a shame to not use them.

  • From: Hillsboro, OR
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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

"We did discuss at the beginning if the Thunderslots were allowed (along with the NSR's), and we did all say yes."

Lacking a sample size since I don't think we'd even seen one prior to the start of the season this was a poor decision.

I like mine too.  But it's not fair competition to the other cars based on the RTR experience.  That is if fair is important.

I would like to think that the first two races of the evening being run would be made up mostly of similar spec class cars of a reasonable value so that new racers can be attracted at a reasonable rate of expense.  That is if new members are important.

I'm hoping that we find a reasonable solution here but one does need to be found.  Perhaps it's this simple...  leave it in the box until next season.  Or, hand it to a lesser racer and let them taste the glory for one night.

So riddle me this...  Will the car also be legal for Classic Spo's Car Class 2 with a lower powered motor and thin tires?  That would be even more ludicrous than the allowance of the Slot.It Ford GT in that class - an allowance I still do not understand.

"Big Smooth"

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

I think I'm up.......

In regards to rule changes mid season of the point series. I am still against this. Changes to a track, such as Howie's power issue or Al's lane color changes, affect ALL the racers equally. I don't see that as something comparable to a rule change which adversely affects only certain racers who have spent the money on a particular car, or spent a great deal of time tuning their car.

In regards to the Slot.it GT40 cars being legal for Classic Sports Car Div.II. The Slot.it GT40 was one of the reasons I created Div.II in that class. the class is defined by classic sports cars, which the Ford GT40 IS! The Classic Sports Car Class was already going wild with some nicely built scratchbuilt cars that are competitive with the Slot.it GT40s. The Div.II segment was one way of separating the high tech cars from the Ninco type cars which the class intention was originally. One nice thing is the Slot.it GT40s give the less skilled builders and racers something to compete against those scratchbuilt cars.

So here's an idea for the remainder of the point series season. Make a change to the racing calendar which removes the GT Class and Can Am Class races from the point series for the remainder of the point series season. Change those races to non-point races and address rules changes for next season. Continue running those classes as non-point races and maybe someone will figure out how to make Slot.it or NSR cars run with the Thunderslots? At least this way there will be no more penalty for not owning a Thunderslot.

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56 Reply by reek455 (edited by reek455 February 3, 2018 12:38 pm)

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

kidvolt wrote:

"We did discuss at the beginning if the Thunderslots were allowed (along with the NSR's), and we did all say yes."

NOT everyone said yes.  I could see the writing on the wall as soon as I believe it was Greg's Thunder Slot run that it would be dominant and objected.  It was at that time that we had a discussion about allowing NSR's to run since the price point is basically the same.  At this point, I'm pretty well confused as to what is legal and what should be legal, let alone fair. What kind of message is this sending to new people?
The next points race is Classic Sports Car Div II.  Are NSR cars legal? What's to prevent me from down motoring a Thunder Slot? Right now I don't have the time, money or inclination to do so but I'm guessing someone else will.
I DO know that I'm enjoying racing less and less to the point I am considering not racing anymore unless we get this mess straightened out.

Rico

Race cars are neither beautiful nor ugly. They become beautiful when they win.
  • ckouba
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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

kidvolt wrote:

"We did discuss at the beginning if the Thunderslots were allowed (along with the NSR's), and we did all say yes."

Lacking a sample size since I don't think we'd even seen one prior to the start of the season this was a poor decision.


I wasn't making a judgement of the decision, merely bringing up the fact that we did discuss it and make a communal decision that they would be allowed.

  • ckouba
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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

kidvolt wrote:

So riddle me this...  Will the car also be legal for Classic Spo's Car Class 2 with a lower powered motor and thin tires?

Yes.

http://naste.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=630

kidvolt wrote:

That would be even more ludicrous than the allowance of the Slot.It Ford GT in that class - an allowance I still do not understand.

What specifically is your objection?  The inclusion of the GT40, or of the existence of a class of slower-motored, podded cars on skinny tires?

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

reek455 wrote:
kidvolt wrote:

"We did discuss at the beginning if the Thunderslots were allowed (along with the NSR's), and we did all say yes."

NOT everyone said yes.  I could see the writing on the wall as soon as I believe it was Greg's Thunder Slot run that it would be dominant and objected. 

Rico


Sorry Rico, I see what I typed but meant to convey that we decided as a group to allow them.

60 Reply by ckouba (edited by ckouba February 3, 2018 12:47 pm)

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

reek455 wrote:

Are NSR cars legal?

Yes.  Restriction was removed in July.


reek455 wrote:

What's to prevent me from down motoring a Thunder Slot?

Nothing.


reek455 wrote:

I DO know that I'm enjoying racing less and less to the point I am considering not racing anymore unless we get this mess straightened out.

Rico

That would suck.  I would miss running against you.

  • ckouba
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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

wb0s wrote:

So here's an idea for the remainder of the point series season. Make a change to the racing calendar which removes the GT Class and Can Am Class races from the point series for the remainder of the point series season. Change those races to non-point races and address rules changes for next season. Continue running those classes as non-point races and maybe someone will figure out how to make Slot.it or NSR cars run with the Thunderslots? At least this way there will be no more penalty for not owning a Thunderslot.

If it's causing this much of a furor, here's my proposal-

There's no reason to do away with any of the classes for points, the only wrench in the works is the Thunder Slot, and I think the only round we've run with them was this week's Can Am.  To make the most people happy, outlaw the Thunderslots for the rest of this year's Championship, throw the past week's round out the window, keep the final Can Am and GT rounds as part of this year's series, and figure out a way to integrate the Thunderslots into our rules structure in the coming off-season (which may still be exclusion from the championship).

This puts the competition back to where it was pre-TS, which was a known playing field before the season started and everyone should have a handle on just exactly how competitive their entries are and at least feel like it's an even field.

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

I am fine with Chris' proposal to throw out the last point race results, and with excluding the Thunderslots from the remaining point races regardless of the class.

In favor?

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  • Goose
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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

I am in favor of Chris' proposal.

  • From: Hillsboro, OR
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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

I'm fine either way.  My objection is to any slot car of slot.it quality bursting in to the Classic Spo's Car category.  Barring scratch-builds it really is about the only pod choice for that class.  I'm happier with it in it's own class.  I prefer non-podded classics.  Feels more classic to me.

This is nothing but a personal preference.  Had I a Slot.it Ford GT I might feel otherwise.  But I'd probably just run it as a GT.  Or get the NSR Ford GT.  Hmmmm...

Choices, choices, choices.

"Big Smooth"

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65 Reply by docdoom (edited by docdoom February 3, 2018 2:29 pm)

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

ckouba wrote:
wb0s wrote:

So here's an idea for the remainder of the point series season. Make a change to the racing calendar which removes the GT Class and Can Am Class races from the point series for the remainder of the point series season. Change those races to non-point races and address rules changes for next season. Continue running those classes as non-point races and maybe someone will figure out how to make Slot.it or NSR cars run with the Thunderslots? At least this way there will be no more penalty for not owning a Thunderslot.

If it's causing this much of a furor, here's my proposal-

There's no reason to do away with any of the classes for points, the only wrench in the works is the Thunder Slot, and I think the only round we've run with them was this week's Can Am.  To make the most people happy, outlaw the Thunderslots for the rest of this year's Championship, throw the past week's round out the window, keep the final Can Am and GT rounds as part of this year's series, and figure out a way to integrate the Thunderslots into our rules structure in the coming off-season (which may still be exclusion from the championship).

This puts the competition back to where it was pre-TS, which was a known playing field before the season started and everyone should have a handle on just exactly how competitive their entries are and at least feel like it's an even field.

      I'm  for that also

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

That's 3 in favor of Chris' proposal to drop the race 6 results from the point series, and Thunderslots will not be eligible for any of the remaining point races.

We will go with the majority of the top 10 drivers in points as of race 5.

Still waiting to hear from Al, Mitch, Rico, Jeff, Fernando, and Greg.

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  • docdoom
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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

Yea was going say check with rest of the top ten before we throw it out.

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

We would also have to throw out race #3 GT which also ran Thunderslots. I would be for it then.

69 Reply by docdoom (edited by docdoom February 3, 2018 5:34 pm)

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

Bill you going to Monties  if so I can pick u up in the camaro.if not I'm stuck driving da ford. I do not want to drive the Ford so what time do I pick u up.

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

Sorry Doc, I can't go tomorrow. Workers will be on site again tomorrow and I have some things I have to get done.

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  • reek455
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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

I am in favor of the current proposal

Race cars are neither beautiful nor ugly. They become beautiful when they win.

72 Reply by docdoom (edited by docdoom February 3, 2018 7:27 pm)

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

I had a moment of crystal clear vision while in the shower.the fog and haze melted away with heat of the hot water rushing over my toned sun tanned body. instead of banning the thunder slots. why not add two more dates to the end of the season and run them then for a make up for the two races we are going to drop. that way those that have them can still enjoy them and those that dont have time to get one or choose not to run those last two races or use a loner,

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

Al brought up a valid point.

It seems most everyone is in favor of throwing out the last point race, race #6.

Do we need to also throw out the GT race #3?

Sorry to drag this out but, please let me know if you want me to recalculate the point standings without race #6, or without both #6 and #3 races.

======Bill

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  • docdoom
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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

Man I had finally had that nightmare purged from my mind and it all comes flashing back into view. I think you know were I stand.

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Re: NASTE 2018 Point Series Championship

Doc, just to be sure, you're for throwing out both #3 and #6 races, correct?

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