Fly Classic Class (Page 1 of 2)

Well Bill- That was kind of the point of this whole thing was to find out what people wanted to do with this class.  I have recieved one email and that is it, but it had some separate issues.  By strict definition the GT40 and the 250LM would be out because they don't have the separate motor pod,  but I was afraid the car choices would be somewhat limited so decided to let the people make the decision.  I'm fairly sure the Ford would use the same motor as the others, but I'm not sure about the 250LM as it is quite a bit newer and may have a more powerful motor.  I would like to try a stock GT40/250LM against some of the other cars to get an idea of any performance differences.

Rico

Bill- Yes, the 908 is the type of car with the pod.  I have no idea which is superior, too bad you don't have a track to try them on and get an idea of the performance between the two.  I'm just trying to avoid the Slot.it scenario where everyone ends up with an identicle car or where you have to go spend more $ every few weeks to keep up with the Jones'.  If they are fairly equal then I don't see why we couldn't race them.  I will need a couple of box stock car to compare and then let the group make a decision.

This from Tim Booze:

Rico,

I would like to have the following allowed for the Fly Classic cars next season.

1. Use brass for weight and maybe to stiffen chassis if needed.
2. Use ANY tire for the rear as long as track clearance is observed, and the tire does not stick out past the chassis. (What is the required clearance for the track?)
3. Change out the front tires to ANY brand that fits and stay within the body so as not to stick out.
Fly tires are not known for being that good as far as I have heard.
The front tires on my car wobble, and they are a little too sticky to slide well.
4. I am leaning toward wanting to allow the changing of front and back wheels for the reasons of dependability. I do not like plastic wheels and esp. do not want a rear wheel coming off when I am racing. I don't think everyone would not haft to use them to remain competable if they do not want to spend the money.

My car is stock but does not have a "black stripe" on the motor. Do we need to buy motors that have this on them? Mine has the typical two square vent holes on top.

Are the 908 Can-Am cars allowed as seen below? At least the description on e-Bay calss it a "Can-Am" car.

Thanks for getting this going.
TimBa

Rico, Yes, if only I had a brain....errrr track!

Avoiding the negatives of the Slot.It class would be nice. It's nice to see a variety of cars on the track!

Will the races for the next season utilize the stupid pit stop B.S.?

---------------------------Bill

OK, after some further research, the GT40 and the 250LM are in.  I finally found a review on the 250LM and it should run fairly close to the Fly Classics.  It might be a little on the slow side according to the reviiew, but the more they raced it the better it got, so in the end it was less than a tenth of asecond per lap slower.

Rico

George-  Yes, everything outlined in the article is allowed under my original post.

Rico

Still no Can Am cars being allowed?

And as far as the stupid fuel BS.  Let's leave that up to a vote of the racers who show up at the last 2 races.

Racin' Randy

I'm in the middle on this issue. Bill's wording of his opinion may be a little strong, but I can see his point.

The way we use the fuel system in the team races this season is nothing more than a forced wait period because it is not tied to car speeds but solely to lap counts. So every 18 laps we have to stop for 10 seconds and continue the race. Fast and slow drivers alike. Since fast drivers rack up laps faster they have to pit sooner.

On the other hand, it depends on where on the fuel gauge the faster driver starts to see if (s)he needs to stop once or twice per heat. Theoretically, the faster driver could clock more laps during the time of the forced pause, so minimizing the number of fueling stops for the faster driver is a valid strategy for a team. That and figuring out how much fuel to take on during the last pit stop in the team's final heat (but this would gain you one lap at most I think).

Assuming that each team can run at least one lap and no more than one and a half lap during the period of the refueling stop, the impact on the total score is small, but we do have some close races so it may be worth it. However, since the races ARE so close, missing laps due to fuel system screw ups (like what happened to Rico's team last Tuesday) have a huge impact. So is it worth the hassle to deal with fuel system errors?

On another note, and this happened on at least on one occasion last Tuesday (maybe more), when you run through the lap counter and the fuel goes to zero but you don't stop the system will not count any more laps until you stop in the pit, take on fuel and continue the race. However, if you run empty in the final seconds of a heat and the race stops before you cross the lap counter again you do get a partial count. This doesn't seem fair to me as not all teams will be in this situation.

Example, during the race a car runs across the dead strip, the lap count goes up by one and the fuel drops to zero. If the car is still at zero fuel the next time it crosses the dead strip (in other words, it didn't stop to refuel) the lap count does NOT go up. But if this scenario happens in the final few seconds of a heat (and people are probably more likely to continue to race when they know they have only a couple of seconds left) and the car makes it all the way past the 8/9 marker on the track it would get almost a full lap added to its total as a partial count. If on the other hand, it makes it all the way across the dead strip again it would NOT get an extra lap added.

So, again, since the races are pretty tight and can be determined by the partials scores, the fuel system may be more hassle for the Tuesday night races than what it COULD add in 'realism'.

For endurance races where we run an hour or more per lane I can see some 'realism' and equalizing benefits of the fuel system, but only if it is tied to the speed of the car rather than based on lap counts although that is also linked to the speed of the car. Or perhaps we should look at car type (I don't know if Randy's system can be set up that way) and take off fuel and play with the tank volume based on the type of car.

After observing what the system did last Tuesday I would recommend we contact the maker of the software and make it so that the Pit-Out sensor can NEVER act as a Pit-In sensor. That seems to cause a reversal of the system and cause of great frustration.

Like Bill, this is just a statement of my observations and opinions, not meant to persuade any of you to think otherwise. It's just meant to make you think...

Tire Specs....? Wheel Specs...?

I see on one website that Super Tires makes silicones for these Fly Classics, including the 917's, but on other sites the same Super Tires do NOT show compatibility with the 917's. If we are allowed to put any type of wheel on this will be a moot point. It appears that both the Super Tires and the Slot-It SIPT17 tires hook up well on Randy's track.

Eligible cars:

Ferrari 512S- Any version, long tail (coda lunga), short tail, spyder even the Playboy versions if so desired.

Lola T70

Chevron B19

Chevron B21

Porsche 908/2, 908/3, 908 Flunder

Porsche 917K, 917LH (long tail), 917 Spyder, 917 Flunder?,  Please NO 917-10 CanAm

Ford GT-40

Ferrrari 250LM kit

Any other Fly Classic car with the motor pod like the ones listed above.

Modifications:

Minor blueprinting of chassis and body.  ie light sanding for clearance issues. Stock motor pods required.

Stock Fly blackstripe motor.  It is permissable to cut off excess shaft to avoid tire clearance issues. Some motors apparently do not have a black stripe. If a non blackstripe motor is found to be excessively fast then it must be changed to a black stripe motor. One exception is the black endbell motor found in the Ferrari 250LM.

Stock gear ratio only but changing brands is allowed. Ratio 11t pinion, 36t spur

No magnets of any kind (except in the motor for you smart asses and you know who you are)

Stock wheels front and rear

Stock front tires

Spec rear tire- IndyGrips 3003 to fit Fly Classic

Converting stub axles to straight axles or bushing the stub axles with brass

Lead or brass weights are allowed
No exposed weights.  All weights must be inside chassis.

Any guide flag that does not require extensive chassis modification (ie Slot.it for stock guide is ok.)

Any brand of braid and lead wire.

.040 minimum ground clearance

Still open for discussion as people have raised concerns: I think these should be decided by the group.

1) Whether or not aluminum wheels should be allowed.  If we decide to allow aluminum wheels then I think they must use inserts-preferably the correct ones for the car.  One other thing to consider is that the IG3003 may not fit all the aluminum wheels available so then other sizes would be required.  I am not at this time in favor of making this builders choice in this area.  Way too many choices that can lead to the Slot.it syndrome.  Maybe restrict the size to 15 X 10 or 15 X 8 or spec wheel would keep the choices to a minimum.

2) Whether or not to allow non stock gear ratio's.  Stock ratio is 11t pinion and 36t spur. I think the question is do we want to have fun, close racing or try to turn the cars into rocketships where the best engineer wins.

3) It has also been brought up that the stock front tires are less than desirable, but they do sand and can be made to function.  Everyone is in the same boat here and other than some stability in the corners they don't do very much as most of the weight is on the guide. The allowed solid front axle or brass bushings for the stubs cure most of the ills.

4) Minimum/Maximum weight limits or none at all

That's all I have for now.  Maybe a hand out and a short meeting at the next race?

Rico

Final Rules (for now)

Eligible cars:

Ferrari 512S- Any version, long tail (coda lunga), short tail, spyder even the Playboy versions if so desired.

Lola T70

Chevron B19

Chevron B21

Porsche 908/2, 908/3, 908 Flunder

Porsche 917K, 917LH (long tail), 917 Spyder, 917 Flunder?,  Please NO 917-10 CanAm

Ford GT-40

Ferrrari 250LM kit

Any other Fly Classic car with the motor pod like the ones listed above.

Modifications:

Minor blueprinting of chassis and body.  ie light sanding for clearance issues. Stock motor pods required.

Stock Fly blackstripe motor.  It is permissable to cut off excess shaft to avoid tire clearance issues. Some motors apparently do not have a black stripe. If a non blackstripe motor is found to be excessively fast then it must be changed to a black stripe motor. One exception is the black endbell motor found in the Ferrari 250LM.

Stock gear ratio only but changing brands is allowed. Ratio 11t pinion, 36t spur

No magnets of any kind (except in the motor for you smart asses and you know who you are)

Stock wheels front and rear

Stock front tires

Spec rear tire- IndyGrips 3003 to fit Fly Classic

Converting stub axles to straight axles or bushing the stub axles with brass

Lead or brass weights are allowed
No exposed weights.  All weights must be inside chassis.

Any guide flag that does not require extensive chassis modification (ie Slot.it for stock guide is ok.)

Any brand of braid and lead wire.

.040 minimum ground clearance.

No weight limits max/min.

Cars must retain all stock interior and glass