3,801 Reply by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

Thank you Rico for wading in on this! I agree with most everything you stated here. I have also always enjoyed both sides of the NASTE events, the socializing and the racing, and as you indicated we have made efforts to better combine the two, but the success of those efforts has been only moderate as you said. The problem is probably just me as I am somewhat sensitive in regards to the whole point series championship thing. I have formatted, scheduled, and administered it for 20 years to varying levels of success. What I have always done is try to keep it interesting and challenging for the participants. What I perceive now is a different atmosphere where NASTE participants in general have little regard or interest in the point series. There is still a sense that those racing in the series and trying to do well are too serious. I feel as though I am doing something wrong by trying to win. I've grown tired of hearing repeated claims that the only people actually having fun are those who don't care or aren't really trying. This alone tells me it is time to move the point series championship to another venue. I'm not trying to change the current NASTE IROC weekend races. I'm fine with how they are, just not with trying to run the point series within that framework.

As discouraging as it is to put effort into a series that is of little interest to half of the participants, it is more discouraging to be ridiculed for being a participant. I have grown tired of trying to make concessions, especially right now as I try to finish up preparations for our last race of the season. Removing the point series from the current NASTE IROC races will allow ME to enjoy the events more!

As far as moving the point series to the Odd Thursday races here is where I currently stand. I have always tried to keep the Odd Thursday racing simple, K.I.S.S. as Rico stated. From the feedback I have received so far I don't think my original proposal for a "modified" IROC type format is going to work. Not for next season anyway. I am now considering running two of our existing classes for points, with one race at each Odd Thursday Night race. I would rotate the two classes every three, four, or six months. The point series championship would replace the existing "Winner's List" I currently keep for the Odd Thursday races, and the "Win Tally". Just another way for racers to track their progress and to be an indicator of how they compare to the competition.

I'm not worried about the point series affecting the attitude or atmosphere of the Odd Thursday Night races. We have a good group of racers, and I don't think any of us take our racing that seriously. It is no different than when NASTE racers used to race their own cars, or when NASTE started IROC racing and people showed up because they wanted to race. The NASTE atmosphere HAS changed. Some people are coming to the "events" regardless of whether there are slot cars there or not. As I've said, that's fine and we still have fun. I just don't feel that is the place for or venue for the NASTE Point Series Championship.

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3,802 Reply by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

Stan, you and I are on the SAME PAGE...................100%!!!

Thanks!!!   =========Bill

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3,803 Reply by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

Thank you for your input John! I cannot find even one point in your reply I disagree with. Your comments regarding rules especially interests me. It is so hard to write good rules and it seems as though as hgard as I try I never get everything addressed! You seem to have some specific thoughts about rules and I'd like to discuss our current rules with you. One of my goals is to make them as simple and least restrictive as possible. One of my problems is on the "articulate" scale I fall somewhere between low and zero!

Hope you slept well!

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3,804 Reply by wb0s

(6 replies, posted in NASTE)

The final race of the 2016 racing season is next weekend, Sunday the 12th at Howie's Rapid Raceway. This will be a pot luck style event, so please bring your favorite dish or snack. The doors will open at noon and we will eat first off before the racing starts.

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3,805 Reply by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

Stan, In regards to your post about IROC racing with your old club, that is exactly what NASTE has been doing for the weekend races for the last few years. The rub or controversy is in the fact that there is a point series championship associated with the racing. From what you detailed it sounds like the people or racers involved were actually interested  in the act of racing or simple put, trying to win. What I am doing is removing the point series from that "race" venue. I think what should replace it is whatever the track owner hosting a race wants to do. If he wants to put cars out for people to run around or if he wants to hold some kind of race, I'm fine with that. If I am going to promote and facilitate a championship series I want it to be for people who want and appreciate it. It doesn't have to be "super serious", but it needs to mean something. It needs to signify something. So the real question now is; does anybody want to have a point series championship?

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3,806 Reply by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

Terry, the new format I proposed is not a traditional IROC style race. For the one class that would count as a points race the racers are submitting the their cars to potentially be used in the race. The top three would be used in the race in an IROC style race. Chances are the cars would not be as similar as four like cars prepared by the track owner. This format would differ in that racers get to actually race their own cars, although they could also be "loaning" them to the other racers.

What you're saying does not sound like what I keep hearing from participants. What I hear lately at the races is "they're not here to race", and "they don't really care". In addition I hear people criticized for trying to race well and win. My point is if this is caused by having the point series within this current frame work it is not where it belongs, obviously. I have made concessions in the format of the point series to address issues that have come up over the last two or three years. We have changed the format so racers of different skill levels and interst levels can race together, and not even participate in the point series. But there is still the criticizm and "talk". NASTE is a great bunch of people and I do not want MY interest in having a point series ruin that. I don't know exactly what has caused this atmosphere. I've run the point series for a long time and there have been people of all levels of skill and interests involved. But there has never been any complaining or ill feelings about people being competitive. Some people are more competitive than others, we all know that. To me the racing IS the fun part. I don't want to offend anyone because I want to try and win. The way I see it is if I remove the point series from the current style NASTE "get togethers" there will be no reason for controversy. If you want to participate in the point series you can go to those races.

I really appreciate the feedback from all who have submitted their ideas! Maybe the real problem is I am the only one who wants the point series to continue. It's hard for me to think of letting go of 20 years of effort. I will be taking some time to think this all over. The 2017 season would not start until September, so there is plenty of time. In the meantime, we will continue with the Odd Thursday Night racing schedule as it is. I do know for sure now that the NASTE Point Series Championship will no longer be part of the current NASTE weekend scheduling. So mark your calendars, next Sunday the 12th is the Shoot-Out at Rapid Raceway! This just may be the last one!

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3,807 Reply by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

Terry, How about we go in this direction, since NASTE seems to have this division of interests, both sides of which are successful, I will remove the point series from the traditional weekend events. Since you stated you have the desire to do something else at your track, how would you feel about organizing and implementing the schedule and arrangements for the NASTE social events? Or if you'd rather you can call it whatever you'd like. We have a very good base of participants only interested in the social aspect instead of actually racing. For next season I will primarily use the NASTE Odd Thursday Night races for the point series and organize that. I'll see how it works out for the point series in that venue.

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3,808 Reply by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

Terry, Thank you for responding to this. I always value your input. In conversations with other slot car racers they will routinely offer me their opinions in regards to the NASTE IROC style races. Of those I've talked with most say they are not interested in IROC style races. They generally say one or two might be ok now and then, but they enjoy racing their own cars more. I agree with that, I enjoy racing my own car more than the IROC races. Like them I like competing with something I built or tuned, good or bad. So to start with the IROC format doesn't appeal to everyone, especially for every race. The Odd Thursday Night races support that theory. And yes, there are racers that will bend the rules when racing their own cars. I guess that is just part of racing, interpretation of rules and their meanings. But as I see it here is where an individual's level of seriousness comes into play, as a semi-serious racer if I'm beat by another racer who's car seems much faster and possibly illegal, it doesn't bother me. I'm just racing and doing my best. I enjoy that and that's all I need.

I remember when we were racing the Econo-Cars. Man that was a lot of fun. The rules for the NASTE Point Series required the cars to be original Bob Hanna built chassis or direct copies with no alterations. The rules also stated the motors had to be sealed Parma 16Ds. Where we ran into problems was when I representing NASTE solicited other 1/24 track owners to host races. I did this in an effort to provide NASTE racers with more variety racing on larger nice tracks, to improve the NASTE point series racing experience. Along with that we also had the fun of having the racers that routinely raced on those tracks race with us. Most did not routinely race with NASTE and many of them were very good car builders. Many of the other tracks raced the Econo-Cars with rules that differed from NASTE's allowing various modifications. As a judgment call I felt strict enforcement of our rules in the venue of a guest track and host was irrelevant and inconsiderate. After all the guest track or club was not contesting our point series championship, they were only attending one or two races. So if that rubbed anyone the wrong way that was my mistake and I apologize. Bottom line is we still had a lot of fun racing those cars, we got to race on some different tracks, and we got to race with an meet some people we don't normally race with. As a semi-serious racer it was fun for me regardless of the outcome.

So that brings us to the retirement issue of the series and the trophy. I guess my real interest here is that I have 20 years invested in the NASTE Point Series Championship and I am reluctant to just let it go. But I have seen it degrade into something that really doesn't mean much where once it was something to work towards and represented accomplishment. So if there truly is no interest or a real lack of interest I will retire it. But I have no desire to start a new series. If I decide to retire the point series I will continue the Odd Thursday Night races as they seem popular right now and I thoroughly enjoy them! It is some of the best racing I have had in a long time, and the group of people is outstanding! As far as the NASTE weekend races I see them as mostly a social event which is fine. I would be happy to still host one and I would like to see the Halloween Race tradition continue. I just miss the racing focus we used to enjoy at those races. In my opinion the NASTE weekend events would be better as open houses with slot car tracks and cars available for those that want to run them around. That's not a bad thing, it is just a scenario where the NASTE Point Series Championship no longer fits in.

Thanks for letting me have the soapbox!   =========Bill

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3,809 Reply by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

Stan, Thanks for the suggestions. We currently have a race fee for the NASTE weekend IROC races and have used it for a number of years for just what you mentioned, partial reimbursement for track owners expenses and some awards from time to time. I would like to get away from that also, it is just one more thing to administer and keep track of. I like the way the Odd Thursday races are going where people just bring a snack if they want to. As far as the IROC style proposal my thought was that the club or the track host would not have to put together and maintain cars specifically for IROC races. If all the racers cars were subject to use in the race I was hoping if damage did occur the racer who caused the damage would step up to the plate for the repairs. I also included a proposal in the rules where if a racer absolutely did not want to have one of his cars compete in the race he could take a "bye" in qualifying (which would cost him 1 championship point), or he could just purposely qualify slower than all the other cars (sandbag). Truth be told I would just as soon we all just race as we currently do and I'll just use one class race per Odd Thursday Night for the points championship. That might be the easiest way to go to get it started. That's the way we originally did it and it worked out fine. We could always go back to the IROC format later.......

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3,810 Reply by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

Thanks Al. I was thinking the same thing about testing some ideas over the summer, such as trying out a qualifying session. I'm in total agreement with you, Chris builds some FAST cars, and I want to drive them..............

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3,811 Reply by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

Chris, The NASTE IROC format started when we were racing on my routed HO track. Due to the track design the cars had to be specifically modified to run on the track. For that reason I started the IROC style races so racers would not have to modify cars to run on just my track, which also rendered them pretty much useless on standard HO tracks. What we found out was IROC style races take the equipment variable out of the races. It makes the driver's performance the most important factor, and makes the racing more fair in some people's minds.

As far as abandoning an IROC type of format, I'm fine with it. I fully understand both of the concerns you mentioned, equipment wear and or abuse, and the time factor with a qualifying session. My first thought was to go with the modified IROC style format in an effort to retain the fairness or equality in equipment and keep the focus on driver performance. In regards to one of the trade-offs equipment wear or abuse, my hopes were a more serious racing group would be more conscious and conciderate of how they are using a fellow racer's equipment. In regards to the useage of time for racing, I feel the proposed qualifying session and IROC style format would somewhat lessen the need for close scrutiny in a tech inspection of the cars as all would be using the same cars. I'm fine with going back to the original format types where we raced our own cars in the point series, however we will have to have better enforcement of the rules!

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3,812 Reply by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

I'm glad to see some responses and opinions posted here. Thank you all for your input, it is greatly appreciated!

I'd like to respond to Victoia's comments. What she has pointed out is exactly the reason I feel I need to move the NASTE Point Series Championship to another racing venue. The NASTE organization was formed around the point series championship, and the basis for NASTE was slot car racing. The social aspect of the group was secondary, although still important. It was a group of people who got together primarily for their interest in racing slot cars. Where we are now the group is split between people getting together to RACE slot cars, and people just getting together to socialize. In my opinion I serve as a promoter. I started the NASTE Point Series Championship and I have run it for 20 years. During that time I have innitiated many changes to the format and to the scheduling of the races all in an effort to keep the interest high. The interest in slot car racing to be specific. In the last few years I have seen a decline in participation at the NASTE races by individuals whose primary interest is slot car racing. The feedback I have received indicates to me people interested in racing in a series would prefer a more structured racing program. The social aspect of the NASTE group is not really the issue. I believe the real issue is the current general lack of interest in RACING. The NASTE social get togethers are in fine shape and working extremely well. The point series just does not fit into the mix anymore.

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3,813 Topic by wb0s

(42 replies, posted in NASTE)

Since the beginning in 1996, NASTE has been evolving. From racing on a small three lane 1/24 track with no timing or lap counting system, to 2016 where racing takes place on multiple tracks with fully computerized lap counting and timing. But what hasn’t changed until now is NASTE’s basis for operation which has always been slot car racing. Somewhere along the way there has been a shift of interest at the weekend NASTE IROC races. This shift has made me re-evaluate what NASTE is all about. I feel NASTE still serves a purpose in the slot car world, but that purpose is now split into two groups. The NASTE weekend IROC races are still an excellent venue for attracting new racers, as well as providing members some social interaction. But the Point Series Championship just doesn’t seem to fit anymore. In fact right now, I question the value of the Point Series Championship. If there is still enough interest in running the Point Series Championship, I propose we move the series to the NASTE Odd Thursday Night Races where there is a slightly more competitive atmosphere. With this change I would also propose track owners collectively would continue to host one weekend event per month. The event location would rotate just as we currently do. I have an outline of a new race format for the point series championship to be held at the Odd Thursday Night races. In addition track owners could host weekend races for the point series if they so desire. Currently this is the direction I am headed. I am very interested in feedback in regards to this proposal. If there is not enough interest in the Point Series Championship I will drop it completely. It has lasted 20 years. Maybe it’s time is over? I hope not, and in an effort to retain the point series I am proposing the following.

Proposal: PLEASE DISREGARD THE FOLLOWING PROPOSAL. I HAVE ABANDONED THIS PROPOSAL TO CHANGE ANY ODD THURSDAY NIGHT RACE FORMATS. ODD THURSDAY NIGHT RACES WILL CONTINUE AS CURRENTLY FORMATTED.

The NASTE Odd Thursday Night Races will be the new venue for the NASTE Point Series Championship.

Points awarded for one race per night.

Schedule at least 6 weekend races that count as point races – separate from NASTE IROC races. For any track that wants to host a point series race.

One class race at each Odd Thursday Night race will be a points race. The point series race will be the second race of the night. Doors open at 4:00pm. First race starts promptly at 5:00pm. May have to switch to racing three classes per night instead of current four per night.

Racing starts with qualifying round. Racers get one minute to post fastest lap time. Track power on for one minute, with 30 seconds between. Timing to be automated by computer with no pauses for any reasons. Drivers are responsible for getting their car off the track when done, and new driver resposible for getting controller hooked up and car at start line. If racer gets a late start he gets the time remaining on the clock to post his fastest lap. Should be able to complete qualifying session in 1 hour.

The three or four fastest qualifier's cars (depending on the number of lanes on the track) will be used for the race in an IROC type format. Fastest qualifier gets first pick as to what lane his car will be in, second pick goes to second fastest qualify, third etc. Top qualifier gets either 3  championship bonus points (or 4, again depending on number of lanes on track), second place qualifier gets 2 bonus points and third place qualifier gets 1 bonus point. In the event a racer does not want his car used in the IROC format he has two choices; he can "sandbag" and run a slow qualifying session, or he can take a "bye". If a racer choses to take a "bye" he will forfeit one championship point. If a racer does not have a car for one of the classes raced, he can still race in the event but he will have to "pay" one championship point to compete.

Points awarded as follows: In addition to the bonus points awarded to top qualifiers, one point will be awarded to racers for each competitor they beat, For example: last place finisher gets 1 point, next to last finisher would get 2 points, and on up to the race winner. If there were 21 racers the winner would receive 21 points, if only 15 racers the winner would receive 15 points.

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3,814 Reply by wb0s

(306 replies, posted in NASTE)

GRAVITY RACER REPORT # 3 – May 30, 2016
Hi everyone!
Work is progressing slowly, but surely.  I estimate the project is 70% complete at this point.
Front bulkheads are installed and tailpiece is secured in place.
Hardwood axel trees are streamlined (whew !) and installed including adjustable feature on rear one.  Car is ready for turning radius test, but need help getting it off the bench and pushed down my street.
Found a one in a million ready-to-use chrome roll bar that is exactly the correct size and shape at Goodwill today for the exorbitant price of $4.95.  It was a part for a portable weight lifting machine.  Better than I could ever have hoped for!   CHROME.  Will look great!
Steering and braking hardware should arrive any day as well as back-up camera/monitor kit #2 (a long and sad story on #1).  Hope to have better luck this time. 12 VDC battery installed.  Nice and heavy : ).
We decided to switch basic livery color from dark blue to florescent green.  Seahawks logo looks super on a bright green background, believe it or not.  Thanx to Jimmy Jones for that suggestion, which I originally shunned until I did a color sketch.  Wow !
Looking to have 2 more work sessions and then hit the road for testing and practice.  I have selected Bill as my back-up driver.  It has also been suggested to do a practice run on bicycles on Mt. Tabor as soon as school is out to get a better feel for the course and estimate speeds in specific turns, etc.  Good idea.  Feel welcome to join in if you have access to a bike.  Will announce a projected date and time soon.
Lastly, I just wrote to the Seahawks suggesting that a group of geezers taking on this challenge might make a great human interest story and that we would welcome a small sponsorship.  Didn’t tell em that we’re already putting “Hawks” decals on it.  Worth a try.  I think that once we have an interesting, flashy  car to show, it will be easier to find sponsors.  Still have 5 shares left to sell if you know of anyone interested. Can always dream up more things to add (CD player, fancy horn, etc.).  By the way, the installed green turn signals work good!
That’s about it.  Can’t wait to hit the track.  Still enthusiastic and feeling the “need for speed”.
Comments or questions?  hartdnns@aol.com
- Dennis
She flies like a hawk, the wind her lover.
                                      - DH

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3,815 Topic by wb0s

(0 replies, posted in Events)

Greg Petrolati will be driving up to Auburn next Saturday (6/4) morning for the last race in the TLOR proxy series. If anyone wants to join him just let him know.

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3,816 Reply by wb0s

(5 replies, posted in Track)

They are fast, but Paul races at 7 volts to slow them down a bit. At 7 volts the cars are much more manageable and less likely to suffer damage in crashes. It also makes the racing much closer! It was a good time! Now I have even more cars to build!

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3,817 Reply by wb0s

(5 replies, posted in Track)

GOOSE, we are going to have to make a trek down to Salem!

The dirt track cars are flexi type chassis with Falcon motors. The Can Am cars were inline chassis with Falcon Motors. Starting with the next race Paul is running an F1 class also with Falcon motors. 

Paul races on Saturday mornings at 10:00am. Tell me when you want to go!

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3,818 Topic by wb0s

(5 replies, posted in Track)

Today Chris Kouba and I ventured down to Salem to do some racing at Paul Painter's Mile High Raceway. What a beautiful track and some awesome racing! We had a great time, thanks Paul! And Chris and I would like to thank Dave Smith for supplying us with terrific cars to race!

http://www.naste.org/members/bill/IMG_2424.jpg

Bob McFarland was there. Bob has not raced open wheeled cars since 1964!

http://www.naste.org/members/bill/IMG_2433.jpg

http://www.naste.org/members/bill/IMG_2435.jpg

http://www.naste.org/members/bill/IMG_2440.jpg

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3,819 Reply by wb0s

(14 replies, posted in NASTE)

We can pretend he did!....after all they're not real cars either!

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3,820 Reply by wb0s

(14 replies, posted in NASTE)

GREAT VIDEOS Dorothy!

I had forgotten how much fun that was!

Thank you!

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3,821 Reply by wb0s

(138 replies, posted in Slot Talk)

Mitch, I need to have you talk to Diane!!!

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3,822 Reply by wb0s

(14 replies, posted in NASTE)

I love your video Dana!

Did you play & record the music?

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3,823 Reply by wb0s

(14 replies, posted in NASTE)

GREAT photos Dorothy, as always!

Thank you!

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3,824 Reply by wb0s

(138 replies, posted in Slot Talk)

Haven't visited this thread in awhile. Can anybody tell me why this seems to be the most popular thread with over 35,000 views???

Just for an update, here's my current work bench status!...............WHAT A MESS!!!

http://www.naste.org/members/bill/IMG_2423.jpg

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3,825 Reply by wb0s

(6 replies, posted in NASTE)

Gettin' ready for the Shoot Out!

http://www.naste.org/members/bill/IMG_2422.jpg

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