NASTE 2017 - New Era (Page 2 of 2)

Quite frankly, I don’t really understand what all the fuss is about.  Yes, there are basically two different groups who participate in the NASTE IROC races, the racers and those who are there more to socialize. So what? I don't see why it can't be both. We have tried to break things down into classes with points for the various classes/groups and this has been moderately successful.  It looks to me like Bill’s proposal is to provide more separation between the two groups. I’m not sure I’m in complete agreement with that theory as I like both aspects: the racing and the socializing. Besides the two groups are already largely separated as the more social group does not tend to show up for the more serious racing on Thursdays.

     This is a slot car racing club and to me that should remain the main emphasis on both the weekend IROC races and the Odd Thursday events whether or not one is there to race seriously or to visit.  I wasn’t there in the old days but I’ve been around for the last 7-8 years where we have always used the IROC style on weekends. After learning about some of the early history I understand why an IROC format is used and while it is not my preferred competition model, I look on it as kind of a necessary evil.  The whole point of using the same cars/controller is to level the playing field so the better car builders/cheaters/money spenders (pick your favorite) don’t always win and to give every racer an equal opportunity to perform well.  Why not just break it down into the two groups, the racers and the socializers and leave it at that?   The racers can race for the Points Championship, which I would prefer to keep, and the socializers could race just for fun without the pressure of competition.

      I feel this situation need not be so complicated with qualification, using the top qualifiers cars, points for fast qualifier, moving Points Championship to Odd Thursdays. I like having the IROC and Odd Thursdays separated and prepare for each differently. I like the K.I.S.S. method (I think we all know what this is) and all this just seems overly complicated and to what end? There are still going to be those who are more serious about racing than others and I’m not sure any amount of legislation/rule/format changes is ever going to change this fact.

     In the current IROC format I have used cars I have prepared just for that event and do my best to make them equal so the competition is even and fair. Just like Monte said they are given up for dead when they hit the track and I’m okay with that, but I’ve seen you all race and would prefer not to use individual racers cars for IROC racing as I’m not really comfortable giving up my more serious race cars for dead or for that matter potentially damaging someone else’ pride and joy.  I am also afraid that ramping up the level of competition a notch on Thursdays with points could lead to a loss in the level of camaraderie that currently exists. While I show up to every race with the hope of doing well, I would like to think I have moved beyond getting too upset if I don’t.  After all, I didn’t get the name ‘Chet by doing well.  I’m just not sure the current process is as broken as some make it out to be and if you don’t like it or enjoy it then why choose to participate at all?

Competition by nature is serious but the trick is to not take it too seriously and thereby not making it enjoyable for anyone.

John, there is some fuzzy math in your statement.

You said " I also don't like to sit around for 2 hours to race for 9 minutes. My main issue with the monthly weekend events is not "serious racers vs. nonserious racers," it's about how little time is spent actually racing. And if you have 25 people racing on a 3-lane track, there isn't much you can do about that."

If you have two minute heats with a minute in between to switch stations, 10 racers will take 30 minutes to run a race.  That's true no matter how many lanes there are on the track. So on a Thursday night at Bill's you will get to "race" for 6 minutes but on my track you would get 8 minutes if there are 10 people at each race. There have been more people at the Thursday races I've attended then there have been on our weekend races so overall you would get less track time. We got done in about 3 hours and everybody got 20 minutes on the track. I've seen one race at Bill's take nearly two hours. No matter where you race, the more people there are, the longer it takes to run a race.

As for building cars, I love to build and tinker, but I am just not concerned with trying to be the fastest. Got better things to do than spend hours tweaking a little toy car and hours practicing so I can spend a few minutes racing. I don't touch my cars in between races, and I only practice long enough to make sure they can get around the track. In IROC format I've won at pretty much every track we race on, so I know I'm a good driver, I just don't have the c/o disorder that drives some people to have to win at any cost, including cheating.

I love seeing beautifully built slot cars, especially when the builder is willing to race it and risk damage. They are toys.

I don't care whether a person is serious or not about slot car racing. Hobbies are a personal thing, I'm just glad we are all having a good time in this hobby!

But the fact remains that the NASTE Point Series Championship needs to be in a venue where it is of more value to the majority of the participants.

A permanent fleet of "loaners" or purpose-built class racers for IROC racing is a good idea. That was the idea in my old club, the driving force behind the "Driver's Championship" class. It requires somebody with the time and inclination to prepare 6 or so cars (4 for four-lane tracks and a couple of spares in case of disaster), so that's the downside. We had a couple of guys who were so inclined (the "benevolent dictator" of the club has about 3,000 cars, most of everything Scalextric ever made), so that worked for the old club. Not sure if there's anyone here who wants to take on that kind of task. Being retired, I'm supposed to have all the time in the world, but our dog care business puts the lie to that! I barely have time to eat.

I will be fine with whatever decision is made. I just enjoy having some fantastic venues to race my little toy cars. If I can place occasionally, that's gravy.

I'm with you also on not changing the odd Thursday format. but thinking that we could move the NASTE IROC to a non odd Thursday race. such has What said in my other post 2nd even Thursday.

This has been an interesting read. Thank you for allowing us some input into your NASTE club Bill. I personally have really enjoyed the racing and the socializing. This past year has been very enjoyable because I wasn't stressed about race totals, points, winning, qualifying, yadda, yadda, yadda, but was still able to race those wonderful cars at each track that the owners had prepared for us. Fickle Fiats. LOL I started coming to NASTE races because Terry was having fun and he thought I might too. Then I not only got to race, but I got to start experimenting with different sweet treats and had plenty of willing testers to try out those experiments. I'm not sure how many people were racing each race before I started coming to them, but it seems like we still have about 20 racers and maybe a half dozen extra people who just come to socialize. That seems like a lot of people to me, but if you take away the social/fun side of the races, I think you'll lose some of them. Like Victoria. I would miss having conversations with her and would hope she'd still come to a race at our house.

"The cost of racing is of major concern, and the cars we race still reflect that concern. Our goal is to make our racing inexpensive, with the main focus on FUN!"

I really liked this posted on the NASTE site and I thought it was great that it wasn't centered around so much seriousness and having to purchase so many cars just to have fun racing. I actually don't own any cars, don't know how to build/work on them and I love the IROC format. It's a great set up and it allows for other people to actually come racing with the group and not have to own their own cars. Plus, since everyone had to drive every car, it really was a race about your driving skill. Like Stan said, "The IROC or "Driver's Championship" format allowed those people to be competitive in at least one class, because their driving was the deciding factor, not money or skill at preparation. It was a very enjoyable format, and people who wouldn't ordinarily reach a podium actually did so on occasion."

I'm not sure who the NASTE regulars Chris is alluding to are, (I actually thought I WAS a NASTE regular because I show up at all NASTE races), but I'm not sure I agree with his statement that they aren't responsible to "ensure that those who don't have the inclination to research what classes/cars to purchase and how to tune them have a competitive ride for any given night." Are odd Thursday races NASTE? There are several people who don't come to regular NASTE races, but they show up at your place Bill on Thursdays because they can race their own cars instead of just testing their driving skills on cars we all have to drive. That's just too serious for me and too expensive for Terry to keep buying more and more cars for more and more classes, so I stopped going with Terry to those. I understand that some people like to be that competitive and serious and that's fine for them, but for those who read this on the NASTE site "So, check out our cars and tracks." would be very discouraged in even coming back for a second time if they didn't feel welcomed the first time they showed up.

Thank you Rico for your insight too. I agree with almost everything you said. This is very true. "I feel this situation need not be so complicated with qualification, using the top qualifiers cars, points for fast qualifier, moving Points Championship to Odd Thursdays. I like having the IROC and Odd Thursdays separated and prepare for each differently. I like the K.I.S.S. method (I think we all know what this is) and all this just seems overly complicated and to what end? There are still going to be those who are more serious about racing than others and I’m not sure any amount of legislation/rule/format changes is ever going to change this fact." This too is important. "I am also afraid that ramping up the level of competition a notch on Thursdays with points could lead to a loss in the level of camaraderie that currently exists." It did seem on Thursdays that there was plenty serious competition already and if you're already competing, adding lap totals and seeing who the winner is, being serious racers with your own built cars, would giving points out really make all that big of a difference? You could keep your point series that way because all of your serious racers would be there racing and competing to see who the winner will be.

I have no right to speak about using your own cars while racing since I don't own any, but I agree with Stan that "5. I think the rules should be rules, not guidelines. They should be clear and concise and consistent across classes. (By consistent, I mean everything should be in millimeters or decimal inches or fractional inches or fathoms, but it should be the same everywhere.
   A. If there are universal rules, i.e. all cars in all classes must have a uniform ground clearance; then there should be a "universal rule" section that contains all the universal rules."
I have been to a few odd Thursday night races and even though you have those 'rules' of yours for classes, there is always someone who will see if they can bend them as far as possible just to get an edge. I don't think you'll ever get that completely taken care of though as there will always be someone who thinks the rules don't apply to them. Bill said "I'm fine with going back to the original format types where we raced our own cars in the point series, however we will have to have better enforcement of the rules!" So true if you want to keep it honest, but who is really going to want to be the bad guy who enforces those rules?

Guess I'm done. I have more I could say, but I think I've said more than my two cents worth. Thank you Bill for all of the good previous years of racing, all of the concessions you have made trying to make everyone happy (You're NOT going to make everyone happy) and for just being such an all around nice guy. If you want to keep your point series, then you should keep it! Making yourself happy should be job one, after making Diane happy of course.

It has truly been a pleasure getting to know you over the years and I hope that even if I stop coming to the new NASTE races, we'll still keep in contact through Terry.

WOW! Sorry. I didn't realize how long this was until I posted it. I didn't mean to write a long boring novel.

Things have finally calmed down around here and settled close to normalcy. So I've had some time to again read through this string of messages. I want everyone to know I really do value your input and try to see or understand all the different points of view. My goal is nothing more than to make the racing with NASTE the best it can be!

The Odd Thursday Night Races are going very well. I plan to continue partnering with Al holding the races as they are currently formatted through the summer months.

As for the weekend NASTE events, Monte will be taking over the administration duties of those races. I will be concentrating on the Odd Thursday Night Races. I'd like to thank Monte for volunteering to help split up the duties involved with the operations of NASTE.

Dorothy, I intended to try and address each of the issues you had brought up in your "novel", but after reading through it again I'm not really sure what point or points you are trying to make? From what I can understand it seems you take issue with those that in your opinion take the racing too seriously? And your main concerns seem to be centered around the weekend races as you do not participate in the Odd Thursday Races? So I guess I'm thinking maybe you did not read all of my posts or you or misinterpreted my meaning? Everything after my statement that I would be removing the Point Series Championship from the traditional NASTE weekend races, were statements and proposals of how I intended to facilitate the Point Series Races at the Odd Thursday Races. They had nothing to with, nor any bearing on how the NASTE weekend races would be formatted or run. None of my side of the discussion has had anything to do with changes to the weekend races other than removing the point series. Which again you wanted me to do in the first place as I remember? So if you don't participate in the Odd Thursday Races anyway, and the point series is gone from the weekend races, I'm really confused as to why you seem dissatisfied enough to stop coming to the "new" NASTE races? I apologize if my comments were not clear enough!

Dorothy your opinions DO matter or I wouldn't even be taking the time to try to respond to your concerns.

And please try to remember, even though you do not care for the more serious aspect of slot car racing, if were not for those people that do take this hobby a little more serious there would not be any NASTE! Those that take it a little more serious, have the c/o disorders, and devote more time and energy to our hobby are the ones that are building and preparing those IROC cars, building the tracks, and trying to put together a racing program that is fun for all!

This endith my sermon! See you all on Sunday!   ===========Bill