Opinions and thoughts about the Summer Season so Far (Page 2 of 2)

First and most importantly, I'm easy, I'm here for the fun of it too. So what ever is decided is just fine with me.

Some further thoughts-

One point to make about my idea of awarding constructor points and driver points, where you seed the cars and teams with a qualifier each race: The effort to seed your car into the main to score constructor points should prevent the best racers from sandbagging since they will be in the running for both driver and constructor points.
Also, the lower half should still be working hard to get their car into the field each night- "for the fun of it" and I would say there should be no collusion or gaming going on there either.

If we split racing time up by segments in the final race, I would just mandate that it is done at the end of the segments and each team decides who runs what two lanes. Given our normal lane change time of over a minute is more than enough time to make the hand off to a new driver. No need for additional time. So you can have a scenario where one team has the first driver the first two consecutive lanes followed by the second driver or any of the three other possible variations...

Been trying to think again?

After reading through all this - my brain hurts as well!
From a total novice I'll acknowledge that race organization, structure and points isn't something I have a strong hold on.
So I'll just list some observations & thoughts about the Team race.

A team should be able to put it's strongest force on the track ie: the best car.

Bonds are formed over time - not usually in 1 race.

Team members should have equal track time.

Fueling, driver switch and lane change times should be adjusted if traffic is making it difficult for all to make it.

Something in the way of a building tips handout for these mag-less cars and or website post with photos, materials, placement and techniques would be great!
Even if every car on the track was competitive with each other - the fast racers are the fast racers.

I don't know if this matters or not to anyone else - however one thing that puzzles me with this series of races if I understand it correctly?
Is the switch from a team race to an individual race, somehow that doesn't seem right. If a goal of this to help develop new & better racers, then a team of experienced, knowledgeable racers who can coach & train others in car development and race techniques seems right.

Well that's about  it for now, thanks for the voice.
Regards,
Jack

Wow Big Smooth,  great graphics.  That should help out greatly.

I think it is great all the comments.  I am taking notes and formulating new ways to run the summer season.  Let me add some clarity and more headaches for some here.

The fuel management is basically designed as a tool to switch out drivers and add some realism (down Bill), fun, and simulation to slot car racing.  In the enduros we use it but we have the same problem that has been discovered here in this thread.  The slower racers are getting much more time racing than the faster racers.  It happened in the Enduros but for some reason wasn't an issue.  So whether we run 10, 15, or 30 minutes for the future racers there is virtually no difference because in the Enduros we run 30 minutes with 5 minute run times per driver, then a fuel switch.  We could go to that and in fact it is on my list of things to do.  Running 3.5 minutes and switching drivers in a 7 minute heat is what we did on Tuesday.  Shorting heat times and hence shorter driver times.  The problem was if you ran slow you only lost 2 units or less of fuel and if you ran the fastest you lost 5 units of fuel.  Hence, faster racers got screwed on run time.  I can set the fuel management to count the same amount of fuel per lap no matter what the time.  So if you average 8.2 seconds in a tank of gas per lap time versus 10.2 seconds in a tank of gas per lap time and you run 20 laps in a tank of gas, the other driver is getting 40 seconds more run time than you.  This is on the extreme ends I think and doesn't reflect a major hit.  Remember Byron lost out of 420 seconds almost a difference of 4 minutes of run time in his heat and could have been more if I didn't step in to fix it with his team.  This new way he would lose only about 30-50 seconds depending on his partner.  I know my partner and I was seeded 3rd for the race, difference was about .75 seconds average difference and that would mean on 20 laps about 15 seconds more of run time for my partner.  I can live with that.

If we go to 30 second gaps in driver stations, moving cars, putting stickers on, and switching out controllers, I think that would be a lot more hectic what with everyone moving around the garage versus moving around a driver's station.  So I am thinking if we do timed heats there are 2 ways to do it.
1:  We would have to increase the gap time (time between heats) to at least 60 seconds to do all that without pissing everyone off as they crash into each other.  And I don't think expecting the track marshalls to help out will work too well.
2:  We have some one sitting on the computer and hits the pause key at a certain time and pause the track for say 15 seconds for driver changes.  Then the computer controls the heat changes at the normal 90 seconds gap.  I would need a stop watch of some sort or some way to fairly control the time and someone to do this.  any volunteers???

So the time segments at this point in time has some things that have to worked out.  I have not examined the computer program to see what the team function options are yet, but I will.

The seeding at the day of the event for a short 2 to 2.5 minute heat or even a 1 minute heat has some issues for me that maybe someone could help me clarify to myself.  Originally, there were some who wanted more individual racing and thought it best to ease into the team approach.  So I devised a compromise with the individual needs and team desires for this season.  Obviously, I was a big proponent of the team concept, but even so we needed a way as fairly as possible to seed racers.  So there are 2 big reasons for the individual race days.  1:  To have the racers get some individual racing and thus point totals on an individual basis.  And to seed racers without the sandbagging component.  As I see it, these two goals are being accomplished.  So what's the issue?  1:  If the racer misses these individual races, where do they get seeded and why?  The why is based on knowing the skill level of the racer, which most of us know.  The where, so far was by me, but I am happy to have a group of 3 of the long term Marshall Track racers make that determination and leave me out of it.  Volunteers????   2:  Having new teams each team race and how that works.  Since no one can control who shows up to the race or not, except yourself, then we don't have a advanced knowledge of the team configuration.  I don't see the issue here.  If I don't show up at a race and I am seeded 3rd and Monte is 4th, then Monte moves to 3rd.......  etc.  If you would like the same members on the same team for each team race and one of those persons doesn't show up, then what?  Now you have to figure out where to place them.  What happens if it is a faster racer or a slower racer.  It could screw things up pretty good.  The way we do it now is that it doesn't matter who shows up.  Just go back 1 or 2 races to the seeding race and set up the teams.  No sandbagging.  I also think to take up the limited time with a qualifying heat will chew up the race time too much.  I really don't care who is on my team from week to week as it gives me a chance to work with, play with, and get to know someone deeper than I can without it now cause I have a lot to do to run the race and I don't get to know everyone as much as I would like.

Another issue is using your own car or not.  Here are my thoughts:  I have had some feedback off this site from racers that want to develop their own cars that they spend their money on and make something great.  But if we always race only the best car on the team, then they are questioning why even buy a car.  Plus, it seems more fair to race the car you qualified in, which is your own car.  The opposite side of this is I want to do the best job at winning I can and therefore, we should only race the faster car.  My team, with Hugh, we raced 3.75 of a round with each other car, and 1.25 rounds with my car.  It helped Hugh by gaining him 2 seconds a lap and giving him the experience of racing a faster car.  I liked that as it made us more competitive.  We went from 6th in the first heat to 3rd in the 2nd because of the car.  Resolution:  1:  Race only your own car.  2:  Race only the faster car  3:  Race your own car in the first round and do what you want in the second round.  I vote for the compromise option 3.

Jack, if your still reading this, did I answer your question about the team versus individual racing issue you brought up.  I hope I have addressed all the other concerns, but if not, please let me know.  I enjoy reading the comments

Oh yeah, if you are still reading this far down, then this next item will be of importance.  I changed the last race to a team race to 1:  keep the pattern consistent and 2: fix the flaw George brought out.  Thanks George. 

Good job guys.

Randy

I used "GOOP" to glue the lead weights in place (I don't like them coming loose and moving around). Here's the location of the lead weight pieces in the front portion of the chassis:

I soldered the motor connectors (chicken legs) to the copper contact strips on the chassis. To do this without melting the chassis, first I remove the motor and pod assembly from the chassis. I then apply a small amount of solder to the bottom sides of the chicken legs. Then I apply a small amount of solder to the copper contact strips where the chicken legs will make contact with the copper strips. Allow a little cooling time for both pieces. I re-install the motor and pod assembly into the chassis. Now with solder already applied to the motor chicken legs and the copper strips, all I have to do is place the tip of my soldering iron on the top sides of the chicken legs for a second or two to melt the solder on both pieces together. The amount of tension on the chicken legs when you install the motor/pod assembly determins how much movement you'll have in your pod (i.e. the further the chicken legs hang down below the bottom of the motor, the stiffer your pod movement will be).

Here's the weight I have in the rear of the car. I basically cut small strips of lead and filled the cavity for the traction magnet. Again I made sure it wouldn't go anywhere by "GOOP"ing it in place:

This is how I like the guide flag braid to lay:

This is a trick I learned from Monte. I used a small "O" ring to lock my guide flag in place eliminating the spring action. You can get these type of "O" rings at Ace Hardware stores:

I trued my front tires to get them round, and to get the frontend to sit where it should. This allows the guide flag to sit deep in the slot:

Last but not least, I use slightly longer screws to secure the body to the chassis (also available at Ace Hardware). This allows you to leave the body mounting screws a little loose without them falling out:

There you have. Nothing secret, just a little careful preparation and attention to detail.  ------------------------Bill

Rather than soldering the chicken legs to the chassis strips I cut a couple of pieces of small flexible wire and soldered them to the top of the chicken legs near the motor and to the copper strips that are up from the chassis by that yellow 'thingy' (technical term) between the front wheels near the pickup.

And Monte for his weight distribution instructions. How could you forget Monte, Randy?

Monte - Bill  - Randy,
Thanks to all for the info,
Monte - would you have that diagram in a higher resolution tiff or pdf you could email me?
Bill thanks tons for the photos - it really looks like you put more weight in the front then the rear?
Why would you do that?
Randy thanks for your answers.
Regards,
Jack