You are not logged in. Please login or register.
The NASTE Forum → Posts by wb0s
So there you have it. 6 potential cars for NASTE racing, and 600 laps of testing. I will make some adjustments to the cars and bring them to the next race at Hemi Heights. We'll test them there, and give everyone interested an opportunity to try them out.
--------------------------Bill
The bottom of the heap. This one was a disappointment, as I had high hopes for the Cheetah.
EJ's:
Again the problem seems to be with a lot of power and a light chassis. What adds to the poor handling characteristics of this car is the short wheelbase. As it is, assembled right out of the box it is a major handful! The rear tires had no grip. The car was unpredictable and extremely loose. A switch to Jel Claws on the rear took the car to the other extreme, way too tight and just as unpredictable. The lap times were better than the Carrera car, but only because the Cheetah was so much faster on the straights. I could not put together a string of more than 3 or 4 consistent laps. I plan to try some gearing changes to see if that helps, but my real feeling is this car needs less motor. This car definitely needs some work! Best lap = 6.116
Down to the last two in the testing session. This one I threw into the mix at the last minute, and it surprised me! This is a box stock Carrera 1/24 Corvette.
Carrera:
The chassis on this car uses a sidewinder mounted motor. The motor does not have a lot of power or speed, but when combined with the stock skinny rear tires it makes for a lot of fun! The car is very forgiving, with controllable power slides signaling the over-use of it's available power. Try pushing harder in the middle of the power slide and it flips. I believe tires with more grip would probably bring the "flip" around earlier. This car requires some finesse to turn fast lap times. You must be smooth when applying the power. The major drawback with this car is the guide flag. It does not sit low enough in the slot on a recessed braid type of 1/24 routed track. I temporarily cured that problem by removing the front tires. A simple permanent fix would be to use smaller diameter front tires (or turn the stock ones down). This is a car I would enjoy racing "box stock" (with the exception of the front tire modification). It's an easy car to be consistent with, and it really is a lot of fun! Best lap = 6.802
The next car (performance-wise) was the Pro-Trac car. This car combines Cheetah motor power, a lightweight chassis, and Pro-Trac grippy 1" tall tires, with model car body. Probably not the ideal combination.
Pro-Trac:
This car was fast, but very hard to run at it's limit. Even after the tires got a little dirty and started sliding around a bit, it was still way too tight. For the motors power and the lightness of the chassis, this car has too much tire. I've seen and run these cars with weight added in the form of thicker brass side pans. This modification makes a big improvement in their handling. But my feeling is if you're going to go to all that work, you might as well just step up to an Econo car chassis. I am going to try experimenting with this chassis as an open wheel type car. We'll see...... Best lap = 4.956
Although the Econo, FCR, and Pro-Trac cars represented the fastest cars, there was one of what I consider the lower group that made the top 3 overall. The Classic chassis car out performed the Pro-Trac car in every category but overall top speed (and that was very close considering the motor fitted to my car!). Again this car was tested as it came from the factory - unmodified.
Classic:
This type of chassis is made to run 36D motors and lexan bodies. This particular car had lots of power and speed. As it is an out of production vintage car, power and speed are relative to whatever your particular car has in it for a motor! For a class rule I would propose a "spec" motor as there are still many 36Ds available from retailers. These cars are very light and they respond well to simple chassis tuning. I cut .2 sec. off my lap times just by repositioning the motor lead wires on the guide flag. The car was fitted with Jel Claw silicon rear tires which seemed to work very well. It did not corner well with too much bite in the rear, for this car "loose" is fast. Larry Cockerham came up with a very effective modification for these cars which greatly improves the handling. Larry made a .090" center pan that mounts to the front axle. With this simple modification adding weight to the front of the car, traction in the rear can be increased without making the car excessively "tight". This car was not easy to drive fast, because of how light it is (it's somewhat twitchy and quick). Larry's modification cures the twitchy-ness. All said this is a fun car to race. It's probably a car that would be most enjoyed by racers that like to tinker. It's not as fast as the Pro-Trac car, but I felt it was more fun to run. Best lap = 6.286 sec.
What became obvious during the testing was these cars really represent two diverse groups. The Econo car, Parma FCR, and Pro-Trac cars represent the faster cars of the bunch. If high performance and ultimate speed is what you're looking for, one of these cars would probably be your best choice. All the cars were tested in "stock" configuration, and in all cases I'm sure some tuning and tweaking would improve their performance.
Parma FCR:
The Parma FCR chassis took second place on my score card. This particular car was fitted with a stock Parma 16D motor (actually and old "pink" endbell motor). Because this car was lighter than the Econo car it was actually faster on the straights. Cornering speed was lower than the Econo car, but predictable and smooth, even when fitted with 1" tall Pro-Trac rear tires. Handling could be improved further with some chassis tuning and the addition of some lead. This car is comparable to the Pro-Trac car, however it was much easier to drive consistently. The FCR's advantage over the Pro-Trac car is probably due to it's heavier chassis. I think this chassis would make a great foundation for a "big tire" NASCAR class. My next plans for this car are the installation of 1" tall wheels and tires all the way around, and to fit it with a NASCAR model car body. I'll test it again after the mods. Best lap = 4.464 sec.
-------------------Bill
I completed the first round of testing on the cars listed above. The testing was done on my 6 lane MDF routed 1/24 track - The BullRing. I used the Bob Hanna Econo Car type chassis as the base line for comparison between cars. I ran each car for 100 laps to get accustomed to the handling of each car, and establish the lowest lap time I could run with each. I completed the testing myself, so all the comments are based on my impressions of the various cars performance. The cars are listed in order as to my overall rating of the cars handling and performance.
Econo Car:
The Econo car is by far the best handling and easiest to race car of the bunch. It is also the most expensive. The chassis is handbuilt using .090" flat brass and made for mounting model car bodies. Because of the weight of the car, this is not the fastest car on the straights, however it is the fastest cornering car of the group. This heavy chassis needs and can use all the bite you can give it tire wise. The more the better! If you are looking for a fast chassis to run model car bodied cars on, this would be the one! This car is the easiest car to be consistent and fast with. Best lap = 4.406 sec.
--------------Bill
Not looking like much of a deal now......
That's an appealing price, perfect for an IROC series! I've got them on my watch list.
I have one of the SCX F1 cars. The front suspension/front axle/guide flag setup is delicate. That would be my only concern.
Bryan informed me the Parma FCR RTR chassis are available for $31.20. ---------------Bill
Many of the components for vintage type chassis are still available as new parts, or old parts can be upgraded. EJs Hobbys is a good source for new vintage parts. I agree that we don't want to have to rely on Ebay as a parts source! Not just for pricing reasons, but you never know if something will be available on Ebay. As far as the Garvic and Classic style chassis, once you have acquired a chassis most all the other components are readily available, or can be upgraded. I'll do a little experimenting with upgrading and see what can be done with the bare chassis component wise. --------------------------Bill
How much was the "Buy-It-Now" price? Looks like that options gone now with the 5 bids....
Found the newer version of the Pro-Trac RTR chassis on Ebay. This is the one with the adjustable wheelbase:
Here's the Parma FCR chassis (available in RTR form) for "hardbody" cars. This is an example I have had for quite some time. These chassis use standard, readily available Parma parts. The front and rear axle bushings are the square type as used on the rear of the Parma Flexi cars. The bushings allow slight adjustments in ride height. The chassis is a solid one piece brass stamping although a little thicker and heavier than the Pro-Trac chassis. The wheelbase of this chassis is fixed at approximately 4.5 inches. The cost on these is around $40.
Advantages: 1) Brand new parts. 2) Multiple motor options as any 16D sized can can be easily fitted to the chassis. 3) Durable.
This is an early version of the Pro-Trac RTR chassis for "hardbody" cars. This particular chassis came fully assembled (true RTR) and the cost was $29.99. I am not sure if this model is still available. I have seen a newer version of this car (not sure if it's still manufactured by Pro-Trac) and the new version has an adjustable wheelbase. If I remember correctly the price was somewhere around $40. Rich Veccio had raced these cars in Arizona. The group he raced with had improved their handling by adding brass side pans to the chassis. The pans bolted on.
As far as this particular example goes, it came with a Cheetah II motor, and nice realistically sized wheels and tires.
Advantages: 1) All brand new parts. 2) Readily available (at least the new version). 3) Can be fitted with many different model car bodies.
We've already had quite a bit of discussion on the vintage 36D cars. This particular one was assembled by Larry Cockerham. The one non-stock item on this chassis is the .090" brass mini-pan that mounts to the front axle. This greatly improves the handling of the car. I will go out on a limb and say I expect this car to be the best handling of the bunch! These cars typically are fitted with lexan bodies.
The chassis pictured is fitted with Jel Claw rear silicon tires. These cars can be picked up off Ebay. The are usually many examples for sale, and condition varies greatly. Generally the prices run from $20 to $50 depending on condition, and how complete they are.
Advantages: 1) Many types of lexan bodies are available that will fit these cars. 2) Collector value (although not as high as a "hardbodied" vintage car) but there is still potential to fully recover the cost of the car.
Let's talk about the EJs Hobby kit. These can be purchased from EJ's Hobbies in kit form for $55 to $65, you assemble the car. The kit comes with all the necessary new parts to assemble a complete RTR car, body and all. To start off the bodies are brand new, old stock Strombecker 1/24 bodies. The bodies are collectible, making the purchase price an excellent deal!
The cars can be assembled with ordinary hand tools, nothing special required. The chassis is two piece stamped brass. The two halves are held together by screws and nuts, and the wheelbase is adjustable. The axles are 5-40 threaded type axles. The crown gear looks like pot metal in some photos, but it is actually plastic with a metal insert where it mounts to the axle. The kit comes with a Plafit Fox motor.
Advantages: 1) All brand new parts. 2) Adjustable wheelbase would allow for the use of many different model car bodies using a plastic "post" type of body mounting system. 3) High collector value. Cost of car could easily be recovered.
Lots of discussion going on regarding the vintage style chassis. My whole goal with this type of class would be to have a class of 1/24 cars we could race for years to come. Early on NASTE raced the original NASTE Chassis cars with RadioShack motors for years. We went through 5 or 6 seasons using the same chassis and just used different makes and styles of model car bodies for the different classes. We definitely got our money's worth with those cars! Most of us "old guys" still have our original cars, as do some of the "young guys"!
This time around I was looking for cars that are easily obtainable, relatively inexpensive, and don't require any major modifications or expert level building ability. So to further the discussion, here are some more prospects in addition to the vintage sidewinder 36D cars:
Listed in no particular order, left to right, front to rear; 1/24 EJs Hobbies kit (shown with the Cheetah body. There are other styles available), vintage Garvic, Pro-Trac RTR, Parma FCR (available as RTR). Testing to follow................
That digital track is sure lookin' good Monte! Nice job!!!!............but it still scares me!!!!
I guess what I'm really wondering is would they all be close enough in performance if we just spec'd the "orange" motors? Racers could run inline, sidewinder, or anglewinder - their choice, in any type car. Or maybe designate a body class (i.e. vintage sports car, can am, or endurance?). We'll probably need some more testing to determine how equal the different configurations are in performance. Who would be interested in scheduling a couple "test" races? Maybe one on my 6 lane 1/24 track, and one on Randy's plastic track? Both races would be non-magnetic.
-------------------------Bill
Rico, I did a little checking. It appears to me the gear pitch is the same between the inline and sidewinders. The difference seems to be in the diameter of the gears. The sidewinder pinions are larger in diameter.
Could we allow any motor configuration? Would non-magnetic chassis equalize then playing field?
Bryan came over tonight to test out his brass chassis 1/32 stock car. We ran some Slot.It cars for a bit. My HRS TCONY stock car seemed to keep up with his sidewinder Ferrari pretty well. The biggest advantage seemed to be the "red" endbell motor in Bryan's Ferrari versus the "orange" in my TCONY.
Sounds like maybe we need more experiments.............or better yet....LET's RACE!!!!!!
-----------------Bill
So what do you think Rico, would spec "orange endbell" motors be a good idea? Frank mentioned last night that Randy had about 15 of them because he has swapped out all his cars motors for the "yellow" endbells motors. Frank said he thought Randy would sell them for $5 to $10, or possibly even "give" them away? Might be a good source if some people do not have an "orange endbell" motor? How 'bout it Randy? -----------Bill
Well said Rico! I agree 120%! What a GREAT race!!!! Thank you Monte & Victoria!!!! ---------------------Bill
After last nights testing session it appears urethane tires are the hot ticket for the Fly Porsche GT1 Evos on my 1/24 routed track. Rico I don't remember what brand those were? The Jel Claws came in a close second. The Evo3 chassis with the spring mounted motor pod seemed smoother than the Evo2s, although we did not compare lap times to see which was actually quicker (tires and wheels were another variable with the different cars). ------------------Bill
The NASTE Forum → Posts by wb0s
Powered by PunBB, supported by Informer Technologies, Inc.