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Hey George, I wasn't disagreeing with you or your proposal. My comments regarding enduros were not directed at you either.

Randy, What I see so far is a series, that in the end is rewarding individual performance, based on a percentage of team acquired data. Is that about it, or am I missing something?  ---------------------Bill

Good question........My real question is; even with the team concept and the team scoring, in the end is it going to really change the overall finish positions on an individual racer basis????

If you're going to do a team series, then why not make it a team series?

Even for the Auburn Enduros we attend, I would much rather be on the same team each time. I don't think it really means anything when the teams change at each race. I would like to know if our team is improving or not. Its the same as when you are racing a series and the specifics of the track are always changing (i.e. layout, applied voltage, heat race length/time etc.). How do you know if changes you make to your car actually improve it's performance? You cannot compare data (i.e. laps times, number of laps during heats, etc.) when your baseline keeps changing! For that matter, how do you know if your driving is improving? In my opinion some things need to remain constant (i.e. TRACKS & TEAMS)..........  --------------------Bill

I heard an idea from George that sounded pretty fair to me. Race two rounds each night as you have always done. The first round would be individual races. The second round would be team races, with racers paired up by their first round finishes. George, I like it! Give us more details!!!!

I also like what Monte mentioned about two teams on the track at a time, with team members running together at the same time. After the first round teams could decide which lanes team members would run. Each team member would run two lanes, they could pick and run their best lanes.   --------------------Bill

If you use lap count you will end up with the same effect as Monte said. The only fair tool is to use timed segments. I still vote you forget the fuel managment system. Save that for endurance races with long (i.e. 30 min. minimum) heat races. That's where fuel managment fits in! Short races don't have pit stops for fuel!!!! Have the teams change drivers between each heat. Set the pause between heats to 30 seconds. The team members will have to work together and efficiently to get ready for the next heat. Same difference as your "fuel managment" pit stops, but less confusing and hectic.......................

As far as the seeding goes, I don't really care, it's a team race. However I did notice that there were quite a few racers that ran much quicker than the times I heard of for the first race. The thing here is that generally racers improve their cars from race to race. So basing your "seeding" on the times from a previous race or early practice laps may not prove to be accurate for any given team race. With that said, for example where wouild I be seeded for the next race? And based on what?  -----------------------Bill

Randy, KUDOs for bringing this to an open format!

1st - I like the team racing concept. I agree with you about the equal run time. If you keep the fuel management as is, the bulk of the teams score or lap totals are based on the slower of the two racers. In this scenerio there is no advantage to slower racers having a faster teamate. The longer the race, the further behind they fall because the slower racer is running more. I understand the idea of giving the slower racers more run time, but that should be in practice not under race conditions. Racers become better drivers by practicing, not by being forced to drive over their heads!

2nd - My feeling is the races are too short for the use of the fuel managment system. The heats are only 6 or 7 minutes long, and you're wasting half a minute or better just to change drivers. In my opinion the fuel managment system is a tool for enduro races. A mini-enduro is an oxymoron. In addition, the driver's stations are too crowded to complete driver changes effectively in the short amount of time alotted. Due to the short 6 or 7 minit heats everyone is trying to pit around the same time, or at least in close proximity. My vote is to scrap the fuel managment! Save it for ENDUROs!

3rd - I want to stay on Art's team (if he'll take me as a teammate)! We have a bond, and I think we make a good team!  -----------------------------Bill

The BullRing is down. It awaits transport back to Roseburg. It's been fun but its time to move on to other things. Thanks a bunch to Monte for helping me with the tear down today!

So what's next? I have portions of a 3 lane track already routed. I am thinking of turning those pieces into two separate 1/32 copper tape routed tracks. Each track will have a smaller footprint, something around 5 or 6 feet by 10 or 12 feet. When completed they will be for sale. So if you've got any interest let me know. You could even be part of the build up if you'd like.  -------------------Bill

Thank you John & Chrissy, and as always it was a great race and great fun!!!! Thanks for all the excellent pizzas as well!!!

And as Arnold would say...........We'll be back!!!!!  ----------------Bill

Help is always appreciated!!! If you have some spare time Sunday that would be great!!!!  ------------------Bill

Me too...........................once.  ------------Bill

I like it!!!

TONY - This goes out to you. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR LOANING US THOSE BEAUTIFUL RACER FERRARI 250 LMs for our last race of the NASTE 2009 IROC series!!!!

The cars were BEAUTIFUL and their performance was EXCEPTIONAL! The cars ran great!

Bryan - CONGRATS on the Championship Win!!!!!!

------------------------Bill

Some very good points and concerns Rico. That's why I'm glad to see some discussion going on, I hadn't considered some of your points. Let's give some of your points some names and numbers for example. Let's consider a PASER member, PASER currently races at Checkered Flag and Rapid Raceway, and this past season they raced once on the BullRing. That would give one of their racers 5 finish results. However many of the PASER racers also race with OSCAR, so they would be able to pick up their remaining race finishes at Tom's World in Bend, Electron Raceway or Spare Time Raceway in Roseburg, or Heidelberg Raceway or Pelican Park in Eugene. The PASER or OSCAR racers probably have one of the best scenarios in this format, second only to the NASTE racers because we race everywhere with all the different groups we know of. The draw back there is the races would not be IROC as we have done in the past. The Cape Horn racers are at a disadvantage. Their group races on one track, although I did read they have another track at a different location now. Also at a disadvantage is the group that races with Beaverton Slot Car Club, again one track. What it boils down to is how many races are available on how many different tracks where they race the same type of car? Or how many opportuniities are there for a racer to race HIS car on different tracks? So here's the beauty of this for track owners. It's NOT about getting all the groups and racers doing the same thing or racing the same cars. I hear track owners saying they're not getting enough use out of their tracks. So with this format you have the ability to have more races because it doesn't matter if your schedule interfeers with another group's. Here's an example, Rapid Raceway is open for a Hardbody PASER race on the 15th. On the 30th Rapid Raceway is open for a Flexi race Cape Horn style, different cars, different group of racers for the most part. If track owners truely wish to hold more races this would be an easy way to accomplish it. The 1/24 tracks around could hold races with the car types from Cape Horn, Pelican Park, Heidelberg etc. etc. in 1/24, as well as 1/32 magnet-less races. Nobody would have to have extra cars, or for that matter, even more than one! The rub maybe with the HO racers? I do not know how many different tracks they race on? HO GUYS, wade in here! However, I do know of two HO tracks that are on the NASTE circuit that don't get much use! And I am willing to use mine! I truly believe this format could accomplish a lot for the racing in our area, without changing the make-up or continuity of the existing clubs and groups. It's about racing opportunities!  -------------------Bill