Topic: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

We had a meeting between the preliminary race and the point series race on February 15th to conclude some of the discussions regarding rule changes to existing rules for next season. Here is a quick run down of the approved changes for the 2019 season by class. These changes will NOT go into effect until the start of the 2019 racing season which starts sometime around September of 2018 (clear as mud right?).

Can Am: Can Am and USRRC will become stand alone classes and as such raced separately. The exclusion of NSR brand cars and chassis plates removed.

Classic Sports Car Division 1: This will become a spec motor class. Division I cars will be required to use the H&R 14k motor only. Class is limited to cars replicating cars built and raced through 1967. Podded chassis will be allowed in Division I provided the chassis motor pod mounting screws are tightened AND the pod is permanently glued making the chassis compliant with the solid chassis rule. No movement or dampening is allowed between the main chassis piece and the motor pod.

Classic Sports Car Division II: This will become a spec motor class. Division II cars will be required to use the H&R 18k motor only. Class is limited to cars replicating cars built and raced through 1975.

* These rule changes posted to Official Rules on July 6, 2018

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

And I will create a new tab on the main site for rules.  In time...

"Big Smooth"

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

Thanks Monte, I see the new tab!

I'm marking the previous rule discussion threads as CLOSED to direct any new conversation to this thread. We still have some discussions open for further dialog. I will try to move those links to this thread. Sound OK?

=====Bill

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

These discussions are still open for further consideration:

F1

GT

Thunderslot & NSR

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

Any reference to NSR cars being ineligible needs to be removed.  They have been voted back onto the island in any class for which they meet the criteria.

The only place where Thunderslots will be eligible is the new Open class.

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

I think I now have all the NSR references eliminated. Let me know if I missed any.

=======Bill

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

What do you all think about going with spec motor for all the 18k classes.was thinking oh the HR 18k motor.

The secondnidator

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

One thing to consider when making up rules, is to be sure new people coming into the group can get started without a lot of extra expense and work. As we know many times new people don't have the skills developed to make changes to their cars. It is also discouraging for them to find out they not only have to buy a certain car, but they have to replace the motor it came with before they can even race it. We have seen people get discouraged and not come back for these reasons. It is one thing for the experienced racers in the group to establish rules they like, but on the other hand if you don't take into consideration what's required for new people to get into your racing program you will see a decline in membership. I've seen this happen with other clubs, and more than once. The most difficult part of maintaining a slot car racing club is acquiring new members! Acquiring new members should always be a top priority if you want the club to succeed.

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

BINGO!

"Big Smooth"

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

Good point there bill. I did not even think about that.

The secondnidator

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

Good point Bill. We could also revisit the whole motor thing and just turn down the voltage for certain classes.  Some of us did a little experimenting with this last week after hours with the new BRM Trans Am cars. The results were interesting.

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

Using a "Spec" voltage versus specific motors may be a good alternative. It would take some testing. Lowering the voltage may even close the performance gap between some of the different motors. My experience in testing motors has never shown a linear performance change with varying voltages applied. For example, just because a motor is rated at 18,000 RPM at 14 volts doesn't necessarily mean it is going to deliver 9,000 RPM at 7 volts. From my observations anyway.

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

I've noticed that changing voltage can be inconsistent . Two similar cars that run about the same at one voltage will run quite differently at a lower voltage.

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

That is the same type of results I saw from rewinding motor armatures years ago. Performance of motors was not linear in regards to applied voltage. An armature wound with X feet of #Y wire at Z number of turns per pole may have resulted in 20k RPM at 12 volts. Another armature wound with a heavier or lighter wire at different feet and turns may delivery the same RPM or very close to the same RPM at the same voltage. However when you lower or raise the voltage, each of the two different armature wind's RPM may vary greatly. Available current (amps) also contributes to the final RPM output and can also vary greatly depending on the wind. Some motor brands may run close to their maximum RPM at slightly lower voltages, some may drop off more.

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

Hey Bill remember that time in slot car camp

The secondnidator

16 (edited by ckouba March 25, 2018 2:13 am)

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

Other things I have been thinking about for the championship series next year...

limit the # of classes - keeps everyone from having to work over their entire fleet.  I thought that having every class would discourage building a championship car for every class and we would compete with the cars we had.  This has clearly not happened- people have been upping the game continuously and that has made it more challenging across the board.  Being competitive across the full catalog of our classes requires a bit of investment of $'s and time.  At this point, last year's set up where we rotated between only 3 classes feels better to me.

run only classes which have replacement parts and tuning options - Pick classes which permit parts swaps and allow wallet-friendly replacement parts.  No more $6 axles + $9 shipping purchases because we need the stock axle to be class legal for the championship.  Allow a spec motor swap if the OEM craps out.  Guide system sucks (Scaley)?  Replace it!  We all like to tinker, and I think a limited spectrum of tuning options allows us to have more "fun" than purely stock.

I know the current season isn't over yet so let's just say I am getting the ball rolling earlier for this part of the discussion.

Thoughts?

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

I do like the idea of fewer point classes and just more "fun" classes, but then I've never been a real "competitive" person by nature but I like having a good time. I know the competition is a big part for others, so I'll play along and try to be fast enough to keep the those folks on their toes.

  I'm enjoying the tinkering and tuning. Some brands of cars need some upgrades just to make them drivable before you even try to make them faster, but I now have a Slot It Alfa 33/3, a car I had previously given up on, that now runs in the low sevens lap after lap and can reach 6.8 when pushed using all Slot It parts and rubber tires. So anything is possible.

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

Orange end bell or something else?

"Big Smooth"

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

Orange end bell the one that came in the car. It feels smooth like driving a Thunderslot, just not quite as fast.

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

These is my take on the current rules.I think we need classes that the new racer cam show up and race and not have to spend extra cash to run. We also need classes were the tuners can do there thing. Need to find a happy middle.

The secondnidator

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

I agree with Doc, and I agree with Chris on limiting the number of classes raced for the point series championship.

22 (edited by docdoom March 27, 2018 4:15 pm)

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

These are my vote for the three point classes.and few others for vote
1. Can am
2.trans am
3.le mans
4. sports 1 but with a twist podded chassis or brass with a spec 14k motor.  IPS rules maybe
5 open gt3 podded or brass chassis and a spec motor

The secondnidator

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

Good choices Doc, you do well in those classes. However many racers aren't particularly fond of Trams Am and they need a LOT of tuning to run well.

The Cam Am and LeMans are run very stock and need very little fiddling with to run well.

Classics l or ll is a good one.

GT is also one that runs out of the box cars only replacing the magnet with lead.

When I started with NASTE I think we only had GT and Classic Sports car, at least that's all I remember. F1, LeMans, Trans Am, Over 50 and Can Am all came later.

It bugs me that I can't remember, I'm sure we didn't run the same cars every two weeks. I think each week we ran one of the classes then Bill ran an IROC race. I'm sure someone else remembers.

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

I agree with Mitch.  If I have a least favorite class it's probably Trans Am.

I'd be happy with:

1.  Can Am
2.  GT or Classic Spo's Ca's
3.  LeMans

But with only three classes I'd be happy with most anything.

"Big Smooth"

25 (edited by docdoom March 27, 2018 4:09 pm)

Re: Rule Changes for 2019 Racing Season

I was not finished with post. was going and did add somethings to the post
I has going with a open class on the trans am and the le mans
In other words podded or brass and 21k motors.or a spec lower rpm
Keep the other non podded classes such as trans and le mans for the support race. the 2nd race of the night will be for the tuners

The secondnidator