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I do not want any part of a chassis dragging on my track, even for 1,000th. of a second! I don't care if you have been building chassis for 100 yrs. It is not nice to scratch someone's track for any reason knowing you are doing it. I will have a full proof tech method of knowing when a car is dragging starting at the next race. Your chassis are beautiful, but if they are rubbing they are out!!

Re: This is the Can Am page.

I am with Howie 100% on this issue! The rules regarding minimum ground clearance on a car are there to protect the track from unnecessary wear and damage. Racing accidents can happen but under normal operating conditions no hard parts of a slot car should come in contact with the track surface.  It is every racer's responsibility to ensure that nothing other than the car's tires, plastic guide flag, and copper contact braid come in contact with the track. As a track owner I have replaced copper contact tape on a track because a car's spur gear, which had insufficient track clearance, had cut it up like a skill saw. I have also heard spur gears making contact with the track surface as cars have passed by me. This is another issue that needs to be monitored and addressed in the rules detailing out minimum track clearance.

In regards to chassis equipped with "suspension" components, my opinion is; if your chassis has some sort of active suspension that in any way reduces the minimum track clearance the car should have a technical inspection where the minimum track clearance is checked with the "suspension" under compression and at its lowest minimum clearance position. Again the rule is to ensure hard parts do NOT make contact with the track surface! As far as it being an issue of "to what degree or level of damage"  the contact is causing to the track surface, I say that is irrelevant. This becomes nothing more than a subjective argument around car weight, how often it makes contact, at what points on the track, etc., etc. No track contact means NO track contact, period! You cannot say it's OK for one car and not another!

Howie and I will be working next week to review existing and re-write new rules regarding minimum track clearance. We feel strongly about this issue and would like to see other track owners adopt the same regulations. Right now there is a lot of inter-club racing going on, which is awesome! Most tracks have a minimum ground clearance of .055" rule already in place for 1/24 racing. I believe those rules could be better enforced, or better yet better observed. The 1/32 rules I am familiar with should be updated, include a minimum spec for ground clearance at the spur gear, and be better observed and enforced.

There is enough maintenance involved with owning and operating a track. There is absolutely no reason for additional and unnecessary maintenance and repairs because cars are in violation of a rule designed to prevent such an occurrence!

=========Bill

28 (edited by Wanabgts November 30, 2019 9:37 pm)

Re: This is the Can Am page.

Just to add some to this. The nascars we all ran last weekend have suspension on the front.

They can easily be compressed by hand until the chassis touches in front. This does NOT mean they touch the track.

In my opionion measuring whether or not this happens is going to be difficult to do on a tech block or something similar. Some paint or something on the leading edge of the chassis could be an indicator, but again that means it would have to touch to know.

I agree 100% that cars should not be dragging the track, just pointing out that every nascar we ran at the last race can easily be pushed down to touch by hand easily.

****edit**** playing with my cars, the suspension only compresses to guide height, but it is still significantly lower than the mandated .055 clearance that i ensure all my cars have!

Zack

Re: This is the Can Am page.

On my NASCAR the guide flag keeps the front end of the chassis from compressing enough to touch the track. The only chassis I have ever had a problem with was one that had the side pans extending in front past the centerline of the front axle. The front of the pans would touch the track when cornering. The problem was evident by the black sludge build up on the leading edges of the pans.

The OSCAR rules state in addition to the required .055" ground clearance, "All chassis must have beveled pans to protect track surface from gouging". This also includes the rear edges of the pans.

Re: This is the Can Am page.

I am aware of that. Both of my nascars have pans that go forward of the front wheels, as i think most do.


I do not believe mine ever touch, i am simply pointing out that teching this will be extremely difficult.

Zack

31 (edited by howie December 1, 2019 8:53 am)

Re: This is the Can Am page.

I have come up with a way to show that a car is dragging while racing. I am currently going over the rules for Rapid Raceway and every one will know what they are when I send out a notice for the next race on Dec. 7, 2019. I will be teching the cars at every race and every class. Suspension systems are fine at Rapid as long as they do not drag the track and are in the rules for that class. There are two classes, NASCAR and Can-Am that is for the builders to do pretty much want they want for a chassis, I do not want to change that.

Here is the deal for me: I really enjoy close racing, I would rather loose a race by one lap or so than win one by 10 or more. 

There are always going to be top drivers, if we want to be able to challenge them then we all need to be competing under the same rules.

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I agree Zack, I think a "static" tech inspection can't guarantee a chassis will not drag or touch the track surface. I think tech should include a lap or two around the course to verify chassis clearance under normal operation.

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I am fine with any rule that is consisntently enforced. I am going to bevel my pans today as well !

Zack

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I think that is the biggest part of the problem Zack. We don't consistently enforce the rules we already have. I know I could surely do a better job of ensuring my cars are legal, and as a track owner (again) I could do a better job of holding racers to the standards. With that said, as racers we should all be respective of any rules established in an effort to preserve the tracks we race on!

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I am very much looking forward to building a car during the clinic we have setup on the 11th of the month. Before we had done that I had purchased a couple bodies and sent them to Jersey John (a pretty well known Retro chassis builder) to have something custom built up for the rules.

I am using the Betta and Classic Porsche 917/30 body. I also had a Dennis Samson make me a custom set of his front ball bearing wheels for the car, so it could have a fixed axle. This is what he came up with, needless to say I am excited to see how she chooches.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49316714531_a828c43201_k.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49316928477_fae44ef75d_k.jpg

Zack

Re: This is the Can Am page.

That is an expertly built chassis from a well know builder. I also know Samson and we have shared info over the years and he has tested some of my cars on S.Cal tracks. The retro guys build Inline motor configurations because that it THEIR rules. If given a rule option like what we have ... sidewinder or even angle winder is better for handling and gear drive efficiency.

Years ago, the Retro group had huge discussions about chassis rules. They wanted to go back to 1967 car technology ... but they didn't want their cars to handle as poorly as cars ran back then. I have built several Retro chassis back in 2011 and 2012 that set track records, etc. The Retro movement died out locally in Washington after about a year.

I'll see if I can post a pic of one of my old cars.

http://www.naste.org/members/bill/R3R4comparisonDennis.jpg

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Re: This is the Can Am page.

Great looking cars Dennis.

I discussed going with a sidewinder or an anglewinder with John. I know there is a performance advantage there, but the simplicity of the inline motor setup cut the costs to build the car quite a bit. Being that the whole thing was an experiment anyway I just decided to try this first.

Retro is still going pretty strong out on the eastcoast, that is why I went there to get the car built up!

Zack

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I have never ran my CanAm cars at Howie's ... to see how they go. I know they run strong on Bostick's track. I am modifying another old JK flexi similar to what you ran at Bill's ... to see how it runs at Rapid. I'll be running a more scale McLaren M7 I think with a legal driver head thanks to Bill. Ted and I like close racing ... so we'll see we wind up with. Might have to use the custom builts ... now that you have one.  smile

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Dennis; are you going to give me a chance to tech your fine chassis after all? Go ahead "MAKE MY DAY", although I will keep my pistol in my holster..............................................................maybe!

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I plan on putting a flexi style car together as well to play with. The one you loaned me was fantastic to drive!

I got my car yesterday and it looks pretty nice overall. Just got to get to work mounting up the body and getting some running gear in it. Hopefully I can get some test laps in on it in the next couple weeks!

Zack

Re: This is the Can Am page.

howie wrote:

Dennis; are you going to give me a chance to tech your fine chassis after all? Go ahead "MAKE MY DAY", although I will keep my pistol in my holster..............................................................maybe!


Of course you can tech my fine car there Howie! You will see I have nothing to hide .... ie. same as the pics I shared. Plenty of ground clearance and plenty of front end tension to support the weight of the front of the car even if a guide flag wasn't there. But of course there WILL be a guide flag and it will also support the front of the car ...  so as to maintain .055" or more clearance.

The whole car weighs less than 4 ounces ... and the front of the car weighs less than 2 ..... so not a lot of tension is needed to support the weight. A have a combined 4 oz of tension plus the guide  ... to support 2 oz of nose weight keeps the bottom side nice and shiny.

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Big thanks to Zack for all the work he did on my car today. Thanks to Howie and Bill for supplying parts and shop time. I look forward to testing it out soon.

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HEADTURNER wrote:

Big thanks to Zack for all the work he did on my car today. Thanks to Howie and Bill for supplying parts and shop time. I look forward to testing it out soon.

Your welcome Terry! It turned out nice well (i hope).

It was a great day of learning for a lot of people!

Zack

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sounds like there was a good turn out for the class. I was slammed at work did not get home till 630..

The secondnidator

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Here are some pics of a car I put together using one of Bill's used Chassis's. I did a center mounted axle to give just a little bit of flex up there, small tire, and bracing on the pan between the rear bushing mounts.

Body is a Betta & Classic 917/30. Just waiting on decals.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49396247471_165e06e6e6_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49396449577_ee2d11bb5e_b.jpg

Looking forward to testing a couple cars on Saturday at Rapid!

Zack

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Results of the Can-Am race of 2-8-'20:

1.................Zack..............434 laps.
2.................DCDynamo....414
3.................Bill.................395
4.................Bob...............389
5.................Marty.............380
6.................Mitch..............362
7.................Rico................347
8.................Oggie.............343
9.................Terry...............326
10...............Bart................326
11...............Beau...............321
12...............Scott...............294
13...............Ted..................291
14...............Tommy.............283
15...............Howie..............257
16...............Gearloose........DQ.

Re: This is the Can Am page.

Wanabgts wrote:

Here are some pics of a car I put together using one of Bill's used Chassis's. I did a center mounted axle to give just a little bit of flex up there, small tire, and bracing on the pan between the rear bushing mounts.

Body is a Betta & Classic 917/30. Just waiting on decals.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49396247471_165e06e6e6_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49396449577_ee2d11bb5e_b.jpg

Looking forward to testing a couple cars on Saturday at Rapid!

Zack

AND THE WINNER IS ..... this basic and simple to build CanAm car!!  ANYONE can do these simple MODS on an old Champion or Jk flexi and have a great CanAm race car at Howie's. Will it also run strong at Inslot? If so, fantastic. I am all in favor of simple solutions to complex problems. My custom built car might have been a few tenths faster ... I think I saw a 4.00 second lap time and I was trying to stay IN and out of trouble more than I was trying to cut a track record lap. Little did I know that Zack with his modified flexi was ripping off huge lap totals! Never heard of such a thing ... but glad it happened. That car is easily duplicatable and other racers can use it to go faster and be a contender!

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Thanks Dennis, it is an easy car to drive fast!

Obviously the potential is there for a flexi chassis'd car, just have to mind the details.

Was a fun race, thanks for coming down!

Zack

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Fun night of racing. I was very pleased with my flexi for its maiden run, it was pretty decent

Race cars are neither beautiful nor ugly. They become beautiful when they win.

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Yes we had some awesome racing at Rapid Raceway Saturday night! There were a lot of fast, good handling, new Can Am cars and Early modifieds out on the track! Thanks Howie for a great time!

Here's some video I took-
Can Am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2yuMUI05cQ