Topic: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

After the last race at Howie's it's pretty clear to me that something needs to be done about the tire cleaning situation.

Since Victoria and I seem to be in charge of this part of the NASTE program I'm going to make one right here.

TIRE CLEANING RULE FOR IROC RACES:
You are allowed to clean your tires at any time. 

It would be good for the race host to either clean ALL rear tires prior to each heat or at the minimum provide materials/time for contestants to prepare their car.

No longer will there be any reason to castigate a racer for trying to get as good a run as the racer that had the clean tires in the first place.

"Big Smooth"

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

Hey wait a minute....NOBODY is going to castrate me!

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

But seriously....Good call Monte, I agree!

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

Okay, soapbox time. I was first in the troublesome yellow lane. Advantage to going first, not in my opinion. I watched Victoria pass me after only a couple laps. I slowed down and drove it like a t-jet and got 9 laps. Tracy was one of the last through and got 8 laps so the car didn't change much, just the drivers. If driving early was an advantage then I got the worst of it as I sat down after one heat and came back in after almost everyone had driven all the cars. I didn't clean any tires as that was already a standard rule at our races in that it is decided beforehand if tire cleaning was allowed. These races are for fun, at least to me. That's why you don't see me at the Thursday races. These are frickin' toys. When grown men whine and pout and act childish when their car doesn't work well or they get nerfed or the corner marshall isn't fast enough I have no desire to be around them. From the beginning I have said I am a player, not a racer, and I still stand by that. If it ain't fun, I ain't doing it!

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

To not have a rule in place to install a certain fairness for all makes little sense.  I doubt having clean tires at each run will reduce any drivers fun.

"Big Smooth"

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

OK enough is enough! I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but I have heard enough of this. I race at the Odd Thursday Night races and I resent the inference that the Thursday night races are not fun and it's just "grown men whine and pout and act childish when their car doesn't work well or they get nerfed or the corner marshall isn't fast enough". That statement is not fair and does not reflect the activities of the Thursday Night races. There are approximately 20 racers involved with the racing going on Thursday Nights and I am sure everyone of them would disagree with that opinion. A higher level of competition and car construction IS fun for many slot car enthusiasts and NASTE has always promoted and encouraged all types of involvement in the hobby. I myself might lose interest in one type of activity in the hobby for awhile and move to another type but I always have fun, and I surely do not berate other groups or individuals for how they enjoy the hobby. Some racers do take it more seriously than others but like you said if that bothers you just don't race at those venues. Just because they enjoy building and tinkering with their cars and enjoy a little more serious competition doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong. Actual RACING is like that whether it is toy cars or real cars! The other side of that coin is some people just really don't care at all, or at least say they don't, which if you think about that it's fine but; why even have a "race"? If that is seriously your interest just put cars on the track and run them around without a lap counter or timer. And if that is truly the desired format, why score points and have a champion at all? If you are in a "race" where half the field doesn't care and isn't even trying, what the hell are you winning anyway? When I first started promoting and holding races, at the end of the session I would mail out questionnaires to gauge interest and see how people felt about how the season was run. I would use that feedback to plan for the next season. Up until a few years ago I would do the same with NASTE but in an open verbal format at the year's end meetings. It got to the point where people did not even have enough interest to participate in any discussions concerning the next season. It might be interesting to use a questionnaire before planning next season's IROC series just to see where everyone stands. One thing I can tell you for sure is the Odd Thursday Night group has already provided me with plenty of feedback which includes some rules updates and the introduction of some new classes. Sure sounds like they're having fun to me?

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

Bill, I did not say that others were not having fun and I did not single out the Thursday races as the place where people act childish. I see it at all venues and series. I enjoy racing and playing on all the tracks and all the series including Howie's races which I used to avoid because some of those guys are a little too serious about winning. In real racing the sanctioning bodies set rules to try and keep the competition equal and inspect cars to make sure they are following the rules. The only races where the cars are truly equal in slot car racing is the IROC format, but a lot of the local racers don't seem to like it. IROC is "serious" and real competition because the best driver will emerge when all the cars are equal. As for just playing, I hosted an open track day and everyone had a good time. There were no true races but there was a lot of nerfing and laughter.

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

I'm glad your open track day went well and everyone had a good time, but Terry you send mixed messages. When you talk about the "grown men whine and pout and act childish when their car doesn't work well or they get nerfed or the corner marshall isn't fast enough" we can only assume you are talking about something you witness when racing at the venues you declare you no longer race at because you don't like it. At the same time you comment about "racers" that take it too serious but now you say "IROC is "serious" and real competition". I really don't understand exactly what you're trying to say. I've seen you during a race and I can see you are trying hard to win and you take it just as serious as anybody else on the track. When you say the only races where the cars are truly equal is in the IROC races I must say you are wrong. The cars are not equal there, the only difference is all the drivers use the same cars. For some racers trying to make their cars better for the next race is part of the fun. It's true that some cars are better in some races, but if you look at the results of the races at Rippin' Ridin' Raceway and at Rapid Raceway you would see that the margins of victory are just as close or even closer than those of the NASTE IROC races. For me it would just be nice to see you quit beatin' your drum about fairness, who's cheating, and what your version of slot car racing fun is. We all have our own version and our own ways of having fun in this hobby. You race and play with slot cars however you want but you should let other racers do the same. And don't kid yourself Terry, the best drivers emerge at ALL the races.

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

Bill, I don't know about mixed messages. Like most people at the races, I try to do my best, but it does not bother me to lose, especially with groups like OSCAR and Howie's as they build their cars to win races. At the Thursday races, the best car is usually the winner. At the last race on your track Doc loaned me his Camaro. I set it on the track with no practice and won the race. It was not because I was the best driver, I just had the best car. I only comment here when people complain about fairness and trying to make the cars equal because the only fair race is the IROC series where everyone drives the same cars.

"You race and play with slot cars however you want but you should let other racers do the same."

That comment is off base as I do what I want to and let others do the same. Everyone has their choice to do what they want to in this life. I aim for having fun.

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

Well......obviously I am confused...............

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

I'm dazed and confused. Monte was the one who complained about the race at Howie's. I just stated my opinion. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

Yes, I apologize, this must be all my fault.

I should have stopped the race at Howie's as soon as the problem became apparent and dealt with it.  We should have cleaned tires at every heat.

Things need to be fair or at least perceived as fair.  And I'm not the only one that thought there was an issue watching their lap totals plummet as the tires on some of the cars became glazed.  And not all the cars, just some.  Rotation order had little to do with it.  It was not gradual, it was not consistent.  Once they glazed, that was it.  That's not racing and not what this series was supposed to be about.

We can debate complaint vs. opinion some other time.

But just to refresh here's your opinion that got the race thrown out completely:

Maybe we should throw out the results of the second race entirely since we didn't count one lane and somebody cleaned their tires before a heat which was a no-no.

No-no?  Must be some unwritten law.

"Big Smooth"

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

Monte, if you are going to quote me, let's look at yours as well.

"Ya know, my initial opinion was to not count the race since tire traction changed drastically."

You had already thrown out the one lane on your own decision and obviously thought about tossing the second race entirely. Instead you tossed the whole night out taking away Tracy's win in the first race. You're in charge of this series. You make the decisions. Don't blame me.

Re: Saturday Series Tire Cleaning

My intention was to let the result stand unless I heard a complaint.  In my opinion I did.

"Big Smooth"